English question regarding word 'Chinese'

[nipponman]

Although I don't agree that saying "Chinese" or "Japanese" is racist, I do agree that it sounds wierd. I don't mean it sounds inappropriate either, it just sounds like you're modifying a noun. I'm not sure why either these example sentences seem to be the same contextually, but they sound different:

I saw an american earlier. (Of course, this would sound weird in America, though)

I saw a chinese earlier. (A chinese what?)

I saw a german earlier. (Fine)

I saw a Japanese earlier (A japanese dog? a Japanese boat?)

*Edit*

After rereading my sentences, (this may have been pointed out already), I have come to the conclusion that it is the suffix -ese that makes these words sound off. It really has nothing to do with racism against the chinese either, as this sentence: "I talked to a Lebanese", also sounds weird. Unfortunately, there is no substitute for chinese that makes it sound like american. (Besides chinaman)

[md1101]

i agree.. i think you just about summed it up nipponman.

[Gulao]

All the time I'm reading this thread, I'm thinking exactly what nipponman has said.

Furthermore, the "-ese" suffix, in my opinion, is strictly adjectival. This still avoids the plural noun issue, because an adjective followed preceded by "the" tends to result in a noun (the meek shall inherit, steal from the rich and give to the poor， etc.), and Chinese is only ever treated as a noun when followed by "the."

[md1101]

Chinese is only ever treated as a noun when followed by "the."

i guess you mean preceded by 'the'

but 'chinese' is defined by dictionary.com as 'a native or inhabitant of China' and by wordnet.princeton.edu as 'a native or inhabitant of Communist China or of Nationalist China'

That implies it can be used as a singular noun. ('A Chinese...'). Saying 'The Chinese' refers to all the inhabitants of China.

What you said is how i would have THOUGHT it should be. But its definition seems to indicate otherwise.

[nipponman]

i guess you mean preceded by 'the'

but 'chinese' is defined by dictionary.com as 'a native or inhabitant of China' and by wordnet.princeton.edu as 'a native or inhabitant of Communist China or of Nationalist China'

That implies it can be used as a singular noun. ('A Chinese...'). Saying 'The Chinese' refers to all the inhabitants of China.

What you said is how i would have THOUGHT it should be. But its definition seems to indicate otherwise.

Interestingly enough, i don't think saying "the chinese" sounds wierd at all. You might say "The chinese people" but sentences like, "the chinese are a peculiar people to americans", "The chinese have a different way of doing things" or "The chinese have a rich tradition in the martial arts" are all fine imo. I think the difference between "a" and "the" here is that "the" is used to refer to specific things (e.g. a chinese cat vs the chinese cat)

and as such when you say "the chinese" it doesn't sound as wierd. But back on topic, the english language (even language in general) is a strange beast, in that that which is correct is not always acceptable, and that which is aceptable is not always correct.

[md1101]

yeah sorry nipponman, re-reading my post i can see i wasnt very clear. I agree saying 'The Chinese...' is fine. i mean that despite the fact the dictionary says it can be used in singular form it still doesnt sound right that way.

[Lu]

Obviously im missing some historical mis-treatment of the Chinese (or perhaps present day racism?) here but saying that the above sentence sounds racist seems to imply being 'Chinese' is somehow unfortunate.

That's not exactely what I meant, it's more that saying it this way would imply it's more important where the guy (or the woman) is from than who he is, what he does.

[nipponman]

It really isn't racist though, b/c the only people that I know that speak like that are chinese people. No one else in this part of america would be inclined to speak like that. But, my chinese teacher says it all the time.

[selfconstruct]

I'm glad it's not just me.

I would tell students that only nationality terms ending in 'an' (and the unique ones such as Scot, Briton) may be used for a singular person, but there are so many dictionaries that would suggest that this is wrong. To me it seems impolite to call someone "a Chinese" but fine to say "a Singaporean", "an African" and so on. In my mind, terms describing groups of people (the British, the Japanese, etc) seperate the speaker from these groups. If someone says "a Chinese", I infer an unintentional "coldness". There is no logic to it though, but some consistancy.