sui1ran2 ... ke3shi4 stuff

[freefall]

My textbook has this sentence:

Zhe4 shuang1 xie2 sui1ran2 da2xiao3 he2shi4, ke3shi4 yan2se4 bu4 hao3.

I would have said is like this (the more English way):

Suiran zhe shuang xie de daxiao heshi, keshi yanse bu hao.

(Although the shoes' size is suitable, the color is bad.)

Is that also correct? It seems that this suiran word allows one to omit 'de'. Also, after the suiran, there is a noun followed by an adjective (daxiao heshi). This isn't the usual structure for an adjective to modify a noun mid-sentence, right? Usually it's adjective + de + noun or just adjective + noun. It's almost like daxiao heshi is it's own clause or something, like wo3 hen3 hao3 (noun + adverb adjective combination). Can anyone explain this phenomenon?

[skylee]

Suiran zhe shuang xie de daxiao heshi, keshi yanse bu hao.

(Although the shoes' size is suitable, the color is bad.)

Is that also correct?

Yes.

But I think if "the shoes" is after "suiran", one tends to have another subject in the second part, like "but I don't like its colour / keshi wo bu xihuan tade yanse". But maybe it is just me.

[FSO]

My textbook has this sentence:

Zhe4 shuang1 xie2 sui1ran2 da2xiao3 he2shi4, ke3shi4 yan2se4 bu4 hao3.

I would have said is like this (the more English way):

Suiran zhe shuang xie de daxiao heshi, keshi yanse bu hao.

(Although the shoes' size is suitable, the color is bad.)

I don't see a problem with your version, though the book's suggestion sounds a bit more authentic to me.

It seems that this suiran word allows one to omit 'de'.

Actually, the 的 is not required because, by using a topic-comment structure, the sentence is commenting on "this pair of shoes," instead of describing "the size of this pair of shoes." A slightly literal translation might read, "As for this pair of shoes, although the size is ok, the color is not."

It's almost like daxiao heshi is it's own clause or something, like wo3 hen3 hao3 (noun + adverb adjective combination).

大小合适 is a clause, meaning "the size is suitable" or "(it) fits."

Keep in mind that 我很好 is actually just noun+adjective, because the 很 in 很好 is mostly for balance (i.e. it does not describe the degree of "goodness"). Because 合适 is already balanced in the phrase, it can stand alone (and in this case, the addition of 很, if appropriate*, would indicate the degree of suitability).

* By "appropriate," I mean that some adjectives are not gradable, and though I am pretty sure I've heard native speakers say that something was "hen heshi," my mind could be playing tricks on me!

[againstwind]

My textbook has this sentence:

Zhe4 shuang1 xie2 sui1ran2 da2xiao3 he2shi4, ke3shi4 yan2se4 bu4 hao3.

I would have said is like this (the more English way):

Suiran zhe shuang xie de daxiao heshi, keshi yanse bu hao.

(Although the shoes' size is suitable, the color is bad.)

Absolutely correct.

In fact, this version:

"这双鞋的大小虽然合适，可是颜色不好。"

zhe4 shuang1 xie2 de da4xiao3 sui1ran2 he2shi4, ke3shi4 yan2se4 bu4 hao3.

is also correct.

It seems that this suiran word allows one to omit 'de'.

It is be independent of sui1ran2.

Actually, if you omit sui1ran2, the sentence is still acceptable:

这双鞋（的）大小合适，可是颜色不好。

Zhe4 shuang1 xie2 (de) da2xiao3 he2shi4, ke3shi4 yan2se4 bu4 hao3.

Because the meaning of transition in this sentence is expressed by the conjunctions "虽然……但是……"，in which sui1ran2 can be omitted.

[PezDSpencer]

Both are correct... but there is a significant difference between the two. The textbook example utilizes the phrase "Zhe4 shuang1 xie2" as a topic, whereas, your sentence uses it as a subject. So your sentence is compatible with the typical Subject Verb Object (SVO) of English. Chinese doesn't always fit as nicely into SVO as English does (sometimes it has characteristics of SOV languages.) Sometimes it's easier to think of Chinese as a Topic-prominent language.