见过他一面

[anonymoose]

I was just wondering whether the verbal measure-word 面 in the phrase 见过他一面 is coincidentally the same as the object 面 in the verb-object structure 见面, or whether the two are directly related.

I am curious because it seems the object in most v-o structures can't serve as a verbal measure word in an analogous fashion:

说话 (x说过他一话x)

吵架 (x吵过他一架x)

亲吻 (x亲过他一吻x)

Are there any other examples like 见面 where this is possible?

[HashiriKata]

I've heard 见过一次面 but not (yet) 见过他一面.

I know that 面 is a measure word for counting flat surfaces but not for cases like this.

So, I'm as well very interested in hearing what others have to say.

[skylee]

見過他一面 is fine. Same as 與他有一面之緣. As usual I know not how to explain on the grammar.

[againstwind]

I think this is a very interesting question. Really.

I was just wondering whether the verbal measure-word 面 in the phrase 见过他一面 is coincidentally the same as the object 面 in the verb-object structure 见面, or whether the two are directly related.

I have referred to some referrence books. Some think the two are the same.They are measure-words, meaning the times of meeting, and have to be used with 见. But another opinion is that 面 in 见过他一面 is a measure-word, and 面 in 见面 is an adverb, which means face-to-face.

Well, actually I don't think it's important whether they are the same or not.

I am curious because it seems the object in most v-o structures can't serve as a verbal measure word in an analogous fashion

That's ture.

But if 面 in 见过他一面 is a measure word, it shouldn't belong to v-o stucture. A v-o structure CAN'T be used as:

说话 (x说过他一话x)

吵架 (x吵过他一架x)

亲吻 (x亲过他一吻x)

As for HashiriKata's example, 见过一次面 belongs to the grammar phenomenon we call 离合词 (sorry, i don't know its translation).

For example:

说话 —— 我没和他说过话

吵架 —— 我和他吵过不止一次架

接吻 —— 你和她接过吻吗？

You see 离合词 is made up of a verb and an objective.

亲吻 is not 离合词， because 亲 is 吻. That is to say they are parallel.

But my question is so 面 in 见面 should be an objective and not an adverb?????

[HashiriKata]

If 面 in 见过他一面 is indeed a measure word, then it should be possible to say 我今天见他三面 (since you can always put a number in front of a measure word). But is 我今天见他三面 acceptable ???

But my question is so 面 in 见面 should be an objective and not an adverb?????

面 should be and object, as in verb+object.

[Gulao]

They are related. The way I think about it, the 面 part of the 见面 phrase indicates something of an instance of the verb. Sometimes, this instance itself needs a measure word, but sometimes, like now, it doesn't. When one does not specify the amount of instances, the phrase becomes more generalised. 见一面 makes the statement refer to one instance in particular. "过他" part modifies the verb tense, and this is acceptable. It may be acceptable to put adverbs in there, as well, but I think generally adverbs are handled by modifying the noun part of the phrase (睡懒觉，说句好话，etc.).

So having modified the tense of the verb, and the number of instances via the noun, it comes together to have this split verb-object phrase.

So yes, there are a lot of instances in which this kind of modification occurs.

[edit]And againstwind has already made a more complete response. -.-

[studentyoung]

一面here means 一次, 一回 one time. “见过sb. X 面 meet with sb. X time(s)” usually implies that you and this one don’t meet often in daily life, or within some period. For example, “这几个月，我才见过他一面I just met him one time in these months”.

The confusing part here is that the measure word here also can be an object of “ 见”, and both cases express the same idea, which is a coincidence.

说话 (x说过他一话x)

吵架 (x吵过他一架x)

亲吻 (x亲过他一吻x)

That’s why all anonymoose’s examples above don’t make sense, when the coincidence doesn’t exist in these phrases.

Thanks!

[skylee]

Another example - 我救過他一命.

[anonymoose]

studentyoung and skylee, thank you, those were exactly the answers I was looking for.