Konall Culture Exchange? Shijiazhuang dialect?

[trauba]

Hi all,

I am very serious about learning Mandarin,　So when I decided to study Mandarin in China, I put a lot of effort into finding a place and program that is best for learning Mandarin. At my university I saw a lot of Mandarin students make little progress even after studying for a few years, including 11 weeks spent in Tianjin. I absolutely did not want to waste my time! So I did a lot of internet research on programs here in China and naturally found this forum. I read all of the comments, negative and positive, but I was still attracted to the opportunity and environment at KCE. I emailed the school and sought references from previous students. All of them recommended this program.

　　　I am currently in the middle of my program here at KCE, and I can say that I am very satisfied with my progress here. When I am done (July 14th, 2010), I will write a more extensive review. In the meantime, if you are considering coming to KCE, you have my recommendation. However, I still advise you to seek the opinion of other students. I think most of them will have good things to say about the school. If you have any questions　about KCE, study methods, or China/Shijiazhuang, don't hesitate to ask!

Jim

　　　

[tkdblaq]

Hi everyone,

Note: This is my first post and I'm currently sitting in KCE's "language lab" or living/eating/socializing room on the couch in a nicely air-conditioned and clean place.

- My name is Dan, and I'm currently as of August 2010 resuming my study at KCE (after having spent 7 wks here this summer, I briefly visited family in the US in between). I had to jump in to this thread because of how many contradictory opinions there are.

- Like me, Jim Trauba (above post) is also a real dude (I met him f2f at the school), and neither of us were asked by the school to post stuff.

- I am writing b/c it's disturbing to see all of this negative BS written by some spiteful wierdos (e.g. this kay fellow).

- Given that this is my first post and I'm not planning on being active in this community, you can ask Sam from KCE to forward your email to me if you want to get in contact and hear my honest review of the school.

I'll just share a few thoughts:

1 - be careful of all of this bashing by weirdos like this revengeful kay fellow and cut-throat competitors that want to try to give this school a bad rep.

2 - this school and city is best suited for people who are willing to make up some simple sacrifices (live without some luxuries of developed countries) and be self-motivated to achieve superior Mandarin learning performance.

3 - Sam and Jason, the managers, have dealt with all of my needs professionally and delivered personalized service. like the teachers, they're proud to be with KCE and will go the extra mile to help you (they have several times gone above and beyond, like when I misplaced my passport). These two men are not greedy, sleazy, cheats who want to steal your money and trick you. On a personal level, I've found them to be solid individuals and I have no hesitation in defending their integrity as really decent people.

4 - many of the students enhance my learning b/c they're the types who are committed to learning very fast. I've encountered smart people who have a lot of valuable advice about how to learn this language well. I've met people from top schools, like Oxford, Cambridge, Science-Politique, Cornell, etc...they are committed to speaking Chinese at the school.

5 - Shijiazhuang as unattractive of a place as it sounds, being a rather un-touristy, polluted, boring, purpose-built, plain industrial city is not only an excellent choice of city for learning Mandarin, but also a good place to be exposed to real China. Before coming here, I had serious hesitations about spending over 6 months in this city because I felt I'd be missing out on other parts of China that are more impressive, full of history, and have more unique specialties. I read about these great vibrant cities like Nanjing, Hangzhou, Kunming, Chengdu and so many more that would make great weekend trips. When I tell my friends and family where I am, I don't have something sexy/catchy to say, like, "I'm staying in one of China's ancient capitals" or emerging business centers. But that has really humbled me and prompted me to see China for what it is without the shiny wrapper. I lived in Shanghai for 12 weeks in summer 2009 while working at an internship and have seen a few other cities for comparison points. I am realizing is that living in a place like this helps me remove the clutter and focus on the aspects of this city and culture that actually matter. Culture is not just about food, weather, history, music. It's about patterns of relationships between people, values, attitudes, lifestyles, dreams/aspirations, fears. I'm honored to have the opportunity to partake in such a profound life experience. To observe a place so different from my hometown in Philadelphia and talk to people who see the world from such a different vantage point. In this city, while eating at a restaurant, traveling on a bus, walking in a park, you meet really down to earth people who live a very normal life. One day I'm talking to an engineer, another day an art teacher, a government official, and all of them seem to have in common a sense of modesty because they're not from some famous place in China. These are the types of people who tend to think that Beijing is tacky and that the young generation of China and their obsession with fashion is misguided. I find living here is quite refreshing and profound. Here there is most certainly a different conception of aesthetics that I've been beginning to appreciate.

-

[putonghua73]

I was impressed with the KCE website, but especially how KCE responded to the criticisms within this thread. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a robust response, because from my time here in Kunming, it seems that negative posting is standard business practice. That said, I do read ALL reviews - good and bad - and use my own judgement to evaluate their merits, and whether praise or criticism is balanced.

Like a lot of other posters, I am immediately suspicious of 1 time posters; but this thread is very reminiscient of the Keats thread on the Kunming forum - with almost identical issues!

I've enjoyed my time here in Kunming, but must admit that after neary 6 months (will sadly have to return to the UK in 2 and a half weeks), I am experiencing itchy feet; where it not for my girlfriend, I would probably try another city / location when I return to China in 2 / 2 and a half years. I would potentially be interested in KCE as an option, where it not for:

Shijiazhuang is an industrial city with very few Westerners. The air is polluted, not much different from Beijing. The city is dry and dusty, and there is a lot of construction

Industrial city with bad pollution sadly rules out KCE, and limits my other options. I can probably deal with bad weather (I live in London!) and a little bit of pollution, and the lack of Western amenities is a bonus, but heavy air pollution is a no-no. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to suck it up in the future if I wish to work in China, because most Supply Chain Management opportunities are based in Beijing, Shanghai, Gaungzhou and Shenzhen (the latter, I hate with a passion). I can appreciate why some foreigners may wish to study in Shijiazhuang, but not me - my living environment is probably the most important consideration.

With that, I will not competely rule out KCE but will compare with other 1-2-1 language programs and their environs. But the biggest determinant will be my girlfriend i.e. she will either live with me (emigrate), or I will live with her (immigrate), or we'll both emigrate in a couple of years.

Cheers!

[anonymoose]

The air isn't that bad in Shanghai (by Chinese standards). From what I've seen, nothing like Beijing or Guangzhou anyway.

I must say though that every time I go back to the UK, I notice how clear everything looks.

[xiaoxiaocao]

While not a lush green paradise Shijiazhuang is also certainly not Chernobyl either. Weather/pollution wise it is essentially the same as Beijing which is just 2hrs away by train. Summer has good days and bad, while winter is indeed dry and can get dusty due to construction. Anyone who has lived/studied for any length of time in Beijing would find it comparable.

There are a surprising number of scenic spots within 1-2hrs of the city for people that are looking to do some sightseeing while here. Photos of many of these places can be found on our school Facebook page - KCE Facebook

As the poster tkdblaq (Dan) said, If you are serious about studying and are willing to make a few sacrifices you will find that Shijiazhuang is an excellent place to learn standard Mandarin.

Just a side note - Anyone is more than welcome to make the trip up/down to Shijiazhuang and visit our school, meet teachers/students etc at anytime. Our school e-mail is info@gatewaychina.net

[trauba]

Hey all,

I promised that I would share more of my experiences with KCE, so here they are!

• 
  Shijiazhuang is a great place to learn Mandarin! From an accent point of view, the mandarin is about as standard as it gets. Shijiazhuang is a relatively new city, having quadrupled in population over the past 50 years. As a result, the mix of people who moved there have to rely on Mandarin to communicate. In my entire 2.5 months there, I heard dialect spoken less than five times... I'd say that it was even easier to understand people from Shijiazhuang than people from Beijing. The only difference between Shijiazhuang and Beijing from a language point of view is that very few people in Shijiazhuang speak English (which is great for your Mandarin)! Sometimes people were so surprised and delighted that I could speak Chinese that they gave me free drinks or other small things!
  

• 
  There is pollution in Shijiazhuang as there is in the rest of China, but nothing terrible like people describe it to be. Beijing's pollution was definitely worse than 石家庄 (炫耀我的中文水平一下 ）！There were some students from a few years ago that commented/complained about the pollution. When I was at KCE, I noticed a lot of signs around the city promoting something called a 3 year project. I've forgotten the name, but basically, province capitals like 石家庄 have been cleaning up their cities (mainly as a result of the Beijing Olympics). Upon arriving, I said that the pollution wasn't that bad. The head of the school confirmed and told me that it has gotten significantly better in the past few years. Take a look for yourself, there are a lot of pictures on Konall Culture Exchange's facebook page!
  

• 
  I can't think of a better place to study Mandarin in China. The 1-on-1 teaching is absolutely invaluable! In my 2 months at KCE, I probably learned at least 4 times as much as I did taking Chinese for two semesters at my university in America. As a result, I actually have chosen to not study Chinese in a large class setting after returning to America. In my opinion, learning a language in a large class is a waste of time, and I know that I can learn more on my own! I'll admit, having my own tutor in China was even better . Many of my american classmates taking Chinese spent about 4 times as much as I did studying for 10 weeks in Tianjin through my university, but I learned at least twice as much as any of them.
  

• 
  I was really happy with the teachers at the school too. My teacher, 素 （Sue), took on students with different levels of Mandarin. She and all the other teachers were able to adapt well to different students' needs. During free time at the school, the teachers discussed different teaching methods and approaches for different students. They really did want the students to make good progress in their studies. If you decide to go to KCE, you will find out that you will become really good friends with the teachers and that they're fun to hang out with!
  

In summary, my time in Shijiazhuang and at KCE was a great experience! They have my recommendation!

-Jim 陶杰

P.S. I have loads more of information that I could share about 石家庄/KCE. If you have any questions or want to practice Chinese with me, just send me a message or reply to this post!

大家再见！

[tyneyang]

"Standard Mandarin is spoken natively by 90% of the population of Shijiazhuang."

This is an approximate but correct claim. I grew up in Shijiazhuang and didn't realize that other cities of China (even other cities in Hebei) didn't speak standard Mandarin (putonghua) until I went to college. In elementary school, there were signs that read "Speak Putonghua". Those signs never attract our attention--"what else can we speak if not Putonghua?" I always thought. My college friends from other cities shared their experience of how their teachers "monitored" them speaking Putonghua (or else they would be warned). However, in Shijiazhuang, it is ALWAYS students laughing at teachers (most teachers are from other towns in Hebei where they have more of their local dialects) on their accented Mandarin.

When I first met some southern school girls with strong accents, I felt a little uncomfortable in listening to the variations that were far from standard, coz I believed all well-educated people should speak standard Mandarin like we do in Shijiazhuang. But now I know I was wrong and am used to the non-standard variations around me now.

The reason why Shijiazhuang is so "Mandarinized" is because it developed from a small village and people migrated here did not have a mutual dialect; moreover, Northern dialects are variantions of Mandarin. Therefore, the migrating population's language is more and more standardized; also thanks to the influence of media, I guess. But don't expect people from nearby towns and outskirts speak standard Mandarin natively. They speak the real Shijiazhuang dialects. Shijiazhuang city does not have a dialect because it has no history.

But I still like my hometown. I have to say my people are more firendly than those of metropolis, though older people might stare at foreigners due to curiosity. lol

[Humalam]

Well, after reading many posts online and being bored with all the ranting about bad management, cold winters, hot summers, pollution, etc...I have chosen to study at KCE this summer. I have been doing my research for 3 months now, I've looked at school websites, forums, emailed people because I am a poor student and want good teaching at affordable prices. The responses from the staff at Konall have made me feel confident and welcomed, I hope my stay there matches their phone/ email customer service.

I will be in Shijiazhuang for most of the summer and shall be posting here with my comments about the school soon.

Wish me good luck!