Affording Teaching in China with student loans...possible?

[葛亞輝（美國人）]

OK, so I'm currently an American college junior. I've been taking Chinese for two years, and this summer I'm hoping to go to China and do an intensive language program. Then I'll take Chinese again senior year, of course.

I'll graduate (*knock on wood*) from an Ivy League school with about 4 years of Chinese, good grades, and a major in East Asian Studies focusing on China. That said, I'll also be graduating about $20,000 in debt from student loans, and with almost no savings whatsoever. I know that english teachers can be paid well in China by Chinese standards, but how possible would it be for me to pay off loans on a typical salary and still be able to afford to eat? Or is there a way to stave off paying back those loans (and accruing additional interest) while I'm abroad...

Also, how plausible a post-graduation plan is this? I've got a bit of paid teaching experience at a respected summer program, and at school I have paid work as a tutor for fellow students. However, none of that was teaching english, so does that make it more or less worthless?

[gato]

Teaching at a public university pays about US$500 a month and at private schools between $500 and $1000 a month. You might be able to save half of that or more and use it towards your student loans if you live frugally. But it's not going to be easy if you have to pay off the loans. You might look into whether it'd be feasible to defer the loan if you enroll in a degree (or non-degree) program at a Chinese university. That might be the better course, as it seems that your reason for going to China is to improve your Chinese rather than to have a career in teaching English. Enrolling in a university program would give you a more structured learning environment. If you teach full time, you might also find yourself too tired or distracted to study Chinese much.

Finding an English teaching job should be easy, as long as you have your degree. No experience necessary in most case.

[kudra]

Is your goal to teach English in China, or to get over to China for an extended time doing whatever? If you are spending large fractions of your time teaching, this may not be an optimal use your skills, i.e. 4 yrs of ivy league Chinese + EA studies major.

I'd enroll in grad school and have them send you to China to further your studies.

Then you can defer the loans, possibly without having to pay interest or even the loan amount increasing. You could probably get a stipend too.

There is no dishonor of dropping out or going on leave if other opportunities present themselves (although I might not mention that in an interview).

Not that you have to end up working for the US govt. but there must be lots of scholarships targeting ivy league grads who want to continue studying Chinese.

All I know is I know someone who studied in the Stanford program in Taiwan as a grad student.

Or see about working for a multinational consulting firm like Price WaterhouseCoopers.

I think they hired Ken DeWoskin who was a EA studies prof at Michigan ( KW is father of Rachel who stared in Foreign Babes in Beijing).

I'd ask your professors for advice and work the alumni connections.

[葛亞輝（美國人）]

yeah, I don't care so much about what I'm doing in China, my agenda is mostly to #1 Improve my chinese and #2 spend some time in another culture becuase I've spent literally almost my entire life in the Northeastern US and never even been outside the country except to canada (which hardly counts)

[kudra]

Right, so work the profs and alumni, career center.

When I was an undergrad I was in full academic mode, and I kind of poo-pooed the alumni connection thing. But when I changed fields from academic science to "industry" late in life, it was pretty useful. If you go over to China for the summer program, or even now, I'd contact the club of , i.e. Yale Club of Shanghai. Just talk to people, and see what might be interesting. You don't need to wait until you are over there, thanks to the internet.

just a note: In preparing to talk to people, you might read "what color is your parachute" or something similar. It helps a lot if you do some homework about the person and their company or their area before talking to them. Think of this research about how to get to China and what to do there after graduation as a shadow sr. thesis.

[gato]

I met a couple of people who graduated from college not too long ago, did a year at the Johns Hopkins international relations program at Nanjing University, which is taught in Chinese (I believe), and are now working for consulting companies in Shanghai. Their work consists mostly of doing research and planning for foreign companies that want to come into China. They say they work mostly in English. The Chinese staff does the Chinese side.

[wushijiao]

How much would you have to pay off per month? (I know money is a sensitive issue, but it would be easier to give you an answer if we knew how much per month it was)

I had a friend who taught in China while paying off student loans. I also had another friend who made a base salary of RMB10,000, while doing many night and weekend jobs to get up near the RMB 20,000 level. So, with that type of money, you'd probably be able to pay off your student loans while teaching.

The problem is, teaching a lot will not be good for your studying. Teaching can be very draining, more so than most jobs. So, it might sound easy, in theory, to teach 30-40 hours a week, but it is much harder than it sounds, especially if you have to grade homework or do a large amount of lesson planning.

So, I think kudra's advice about looking into other options sounds appropriate. It is possible, I think, to learn Chinese, teach, and pay off your student loans, but it could be a delicate balancing act involving tons of energy on your part.

If you do decide to teach in China, I'd suggest that you:

A) get an ESL teaching degree (like CELTA)

B) try to get some experience teaching or tutoring people in your local community. You have a good head start tutoring people (even if it is not ESL-type tutoring, I think it would still be good on a CV and good to prepare you other sorts of teaching)

Then, I think you could be in a place to get teaching jobs that pay more or at less sketchy places. Also, if you spend time learning "how to teach" now, you'll go through less shock, and you'll be able to focus more on studying Chinese when you are off work.

[badr]

another issue that you need to consider is transferring your hard earned money in China back to the USA to repay said loans.

If you teach in a bigger city like Beijing, Shanghai or guangzhou, you can earn enough but navigating through the banking regulations and money transfer can be a nightmare ( not to mention costly)

If you an defer your loan payments for 6 months to 1 year, this might allow you to build-up a small saving base so that you can transfer money out every 3 months or so instead of having to deal with it on a monthly basis.

[Laska]

I was in a very similar situation to yours when I came to China as a teacher four years ago. It's definitely possible.

My first year in China I deferred my loans and taught at a public university in a mid-sized city. I arranged my contract directly with the school (avoid recruiters) and I only taught about 11 to 13 hours per week. This left me with a lot of time to read and study. As one of only two or three foreign teachers in the town, I felt that I got a great immersion experience in the "real China" that I might not have gotten by going to work right away in a private school in a big city.

If you stay here for a while, you will probably find part-time work for private schools the best employment situation for paying off loans and studying. It's possible to arrange a situation where you only teach 9 to 12 hours per week and make enough to pay off loans and live comfortably. Some schools now offer part-time contracts. You can also do some freelance copyediting or translation. It will take at least a year, however, to get your feet on the ground in a city and get the best jobs, since relationshps and word of mouth count for a lot. Getting into corporate training (business English) is the road I took. The students are smart and motivated. The classes are small. However, no matter where you teach, you will run into unscrupulous employers. Also, you'll find that very few of your colleagues share your interest in China. Most teachers are in China because they can afford a better lifestyle here than they could at home. Some men are here for the girls. Most of them will spend most of their spare time incessently complaining about China with their likeminded friends. The worst are the ones who style themselves liberals but are really unconscious closet bigot know it alls with a very shallow understanding of the culture they are living in.

For me, I'm not interested in business and I enjoy teaching. It's more a less a stopover for me before I go to grad school (fingers crossed) in 2008. When you've been in school your whole life and you haven't lived abroad, I definitely think it's very enriching to get the real, gritty hands-on experience in the country that you want to focus your academic career on. You may be burnt out on academics. But after a couple years here, you will definitely find tons of interesting topics to research.

On the other hand, if you are not so interested in going to grad school, you may be better off going to the Hopkins program or studying Chinese formally, perhaps with a CIEE. Or take the HSK and try to get a scholarship to enroll in university here. Just defer your loans for a year, study Chinese. Then, when you’ve made some progress, start a career. Or write a book and become an author. After you’ve been teaching for a few years, it will be difficult to switch careers.

The bottom line is this: If you are fully committed to experiencing China and learning Chinese, you can live on very little here and pay off your loans on the same time. Avoid most other teachers and stay out of bars. As I said, you’ll run into some bad employers. Be prepared for that, especially if you’ve never worked before. It can seem really bad sometimes, especially when compounded by cultural differences. Just take it with a grain of salt and realize it’s par for the course.

As for the logistics of life, they can also be challenging at first. Remember few Chinese city people under 30 have a clue about practical matters such as paying bills and using washing machines, so ask older people. :-)

My unsolicited advice:

1) Step out, take control, be wary, bargain for everything (for example when renting an apartment, negotiating a salary). Aim high. Have no shame. Feel no pity. Everything is negotiable.

2) Take 黄莲素 (beberine hydrochloride) for diarrhea.

I wish I'd known those when I started. ;-)

With the benefit of aftersight and travel, I would choose to live in a northeastern coastal town. Great beaches, climate. Nice people. Fairly standard dialect. Can you come over and travel first, then find a job? You might strongly consider doing it that way if you don't mind the uncertainty.

As for transferring money, it’s really not that hard. There are some cool tricks that can save you a lot of hassle and money. If you want to talk more, pm me.

p.s. take the GRE now if you think there is a faint chance of going to grad school within five years. it'll be great to have it out of the way.

p.s.s. get profs to put recs in your dossier and stay in touch with them.

[imron]

As for transferring money, it’s really not that hard. There are some cool tricks that can save you a lot of hassle and money.

Care to share those cool tricks with everyone? (perhaps in a new thread)

[roddy]

Very solid advice there from Laska, for anyone thinking of teaching here.

[jasmitwalkar]

Okay friends, my husband and I took out a private student loan before we quit our corporate jobs to go back to school for nursing. Now that I've been accepted to a school, I'm curious if mentioning this $30K student loan. I have a 4.0 GPA and am well qualified for scholarships in general, but I don't know how this financial factor plays in. Thanks for your help.

[akajoey]

In case you are not aware...

My English Teacher colleague at a teacher training college in China is with the US Peace Corps. Whilst here his student loan repayments are deferred and he will receive a sizable lump sum on return to the US after two-years service. Peace Corps also offer other benefits that you may be interested in.

Hope this is of interest to you or anyone else.

[lilongyue]

I'd say go teach in Taiwan. It's true that the cost of living is much higher, but so is the pay. I'm not 100% sure, but I have the feeling that if one were to balance the various factors, a frugal life in Taiwan might leave you with much more money for paying off loans than a frugal life in China. It's definitely worth looking into.

[nomad]

PCV usually receive about $6000USD after their 2 year service, they also get a monthly stipend (could be up to $200 a month). So, I'm not sure if you would consider this as a "sizable lump sum."

[akajoey]

PCV usually receive about $6000USD ... I'm not sure if you would consider this as a "sizable lump sum."

I am sure that I would describe that as a sizable lump sum, but then sizable is a quite subjective adjective. In my opinion a graduate student would be grateful for that cheque after two-years service that is valuable in its own right - especially as Peace Corps provide for all possible costs during a volunteer's service and then assist in career planning and job finding upon return to the US.