Eating with Westerners

[yonitabonita]

I was raised in Australia and consider myself in large part, culturally western.

But one thing I have never been able to get used to, is eating Chinese meals with Westerners.

I've always noticed that while many westerners share the food in the middle, they don't take small portions like Chinese people do (ie, one to two spoonfuls). Instead, they have no issues with shifting a quarter of a dish into the safety of their own bowls in one swift swoop. This means that I can never keep up, and whoever I'm dining with has usually inhaled three quarters of the dish before I've finished half a bowl of rice. Over time, I've had to modify my behaviour by doing the same - despite feeling really rude about doing so. It's Australia and Anglo Australian eating habits, I suppose, have a right to prevail.

Over the last 6 months I've been able to eat at my natural leisurely pace without fear of going hungry since I've been eating with Chinese people again. It came as a mild shock to the system recently when I sat down to dinner with a table of Westerners, who sucked back the dishes at vacuum speed. Holy crap! What do their Chinese friends think?

A related eating observation. Sitting in S.I.T. I noticed a Chinese couple who ordered a pizza, and a couple of pasta dishes. They put the dishes in the middle of the table, and shared the dishes like they would if they were Chinese dishes. A mouthful of pasta here, a mouthful of pizza there, a bit more pasta here etc.

Oh, I'm not having a go at Westerners here. And the usual caveats apply, not all Westerners are like this, and there are many that are culturally sensitive and eat according to this cultural sensitivity blah blah.. but for those who aren't, I think this posting might be useful to think about when dining with your Chinese friends.

ahhh.. now, out to dine with Westerners again. I hope we're getting pizza.

Yonita

[anonymoose]

Ha ha. That reminds me of the time I was an English teacher in Dalian. Every Saturday and Sunday us western teachers used to go to a resaturant near the school for lunch. One of the chinese teachers also came along with us as he used to like to practice his English.

Anyway, as time was limited, we always just told the restaurant to give us a selection of dishes. Some of these would be very popular, and others not so much.

When we got to the restaurant, it would be an absolute feeding frenzy. A plate of something tasty would last literally less than a minute before it all got scooped off into people's bowls. If you were more than two or three minutes behind everyone else to the restaurant, chances are there would be nothing left of the best dishes. It really is funny to think about because there was so little etiquette that it was quite surreal. But unfortunately everyone had to be like that, because if anyone chose not to, they wouldn't get any decent food.

The funny thing is, the chinese guy had the worst reputation of all. He didn't put stuff in his bowl as much as us foreigners did, but the speed at which he shovelled stuff straight from the plate into his mouth and chomped it down was legendary. He had no trouble competing with us westerners.

Yonitabonita, my theory is that westerners stick food into their bowls because somehow it seems unhygenic to share with others and eat off the same plate, and by transferring the food to a personal bowl first somehow makes it seem more acceptable psychologically even if it makes little difference in reality.

[owshawng]

The same thing happens when I go out with Australians. They scoop up so much food that frequently plates would be emptied before they would get halfway around the table. The chinese and myself would be looking at each other like WTF? Anglos do the same thing in the US. Maybe it is an anglo-saxon thing? I'm not bashing Aussies or Anglos (II'm 3/4 Anglo myself). I didn't notice the feeding frenzy among italian americans or hispanic-americans though. Maybe cultures such as french, mediterranean, chinese, south american, carribean etc. where meals are traditionally a way to relax and socialize put more emphasis on sharing and portion etiquette?

[roddy]

Sure you're not eating with rude people? I'm pretty sure I'm less shy about helping myself than the average glutton, but I like to think I'd be aware if I wasn't leaving enough for everyone else to get their share. This is very frustrating when you're at a big rotating table and you really want to load your plate up with something delicious but you can only take one for manners sake and have to watch it go round and round the table. And then when it's just about to reach you again some idiot starts rotating the table the wrong way and it just gets further away, leaving you with the boiled peanuts again:evil:

[wushijiao]

Instead, they have no issues with shifting a quarter of a dish into the safety of their own bowls in one swift swoop.

Hilarious Yonita Bonita! It reminds me of high school. One of my best friends and I used to go to local Safeway and buy a huge bucket of ice cream, or we’d buy a pizza or whatever. We’d share the costs evenly. However, after sitting down at a table, both aggressively poised for eating, we’d yell “go”, and then it was an eating contest. How much you were able to eat depended on how fast you ate. If you were able to eat 70% of the food because you ate it faster than your opponent, well, then he wasted his money, and you had bragging rights.

This type of eating was fueled by idiocy, a bizarre sense of humor, and hefty portions of testosterone.

The funny thing is, the chinese guy had the worst reputation of all. He didn't put stuff in his bowl as much as us foreigners did, but the speed at which he shovelled stuff straight from the plate into his mouth and chomped it down was legendary.

I have to admit, I had a gut-level respect for the Chinese guy when reading that story. I guess that shows my warped sense of values.

[md1101]

well of course you can't say its an 'anglo' thing. its a cultural thing. probably to do with 1) the hygenic thing mentioned earlier and 2) the fact the westerners are used to eating their entire meal from one plate so they attempt to make that entire meal all at once (even in a small bowl). saying its an 'anglo thing' is attributing a personal characteristic to an ethnicity like going to china and then saying that spitting is an asian thing.

im sure there are plenty of australians/americans of asian ethnicity who do the same thing (grab a whole lot from the plates!) just not those who had their parents pass on the chinese method of eating.

anyway, interestingly i never noticed the phenenom you are talking about during my year in china. but i will certainly look out for it from now on! and try and see if any of the chinese look angry...

[geraldc]

Start booby trapping dishes, order fish with bones (choking hazzard) and bitter melon (don't know many westerners who will eat it) they're enough to slow most people down.

Most chinese don't use serving spoons and just use their chopsticks to pick food, so you really can't "load up". Also it's ettiquette to pick up the best bits and offer it to your elders etc. However at at a HK western style eat as much as want buffet, all bets are off, it's everyman for himself. There you'll see both speed eating and gluttony.

[Xiao Kui]

One culture loads up their food onto their plates once seated at the table. Another culture is pushing and shoving to get to the cash register first at McDonald's like they're going to run out of fries or sth. I guess what we're doing makes sense to us and no one else.

[geraldc]

Manner wise, I guess Chinese are good at the dinner table for portion control, but mainlanders cannot queue!!!! I don't mind if my friends eat more or faster than me, but what really pisses me off, is when a stranger of any nationality jumps the queue...

[imron]

Well, speaking as an Australian who doesn't hoard food, I think a large part of this habit is determined by how long a person has been living in China, and how much they've eaten with Chinese people. Someone newly arrived is far more likely to hoard food, as it's the way they're used to eating (everyone with their own plate etc). Initially, I guess there are also hygeine concerns that come into play. Given time though, and assuming the person eats enough with people who don't hoard their food, such habits quickly disappear (lasted all of about a week for me, when I first went to China).

[yonitabonita]

saying its an 'anglo thing' is attributing a personal characteristic to an ethnicity like going to china and then saying that spitting is an asian thing.

My reference to Anglo-Australian eating habits is meant to be understood in contrast to say, Indian Australian, or Thai Australian, or Indigenous Australian etc who share food differently. Merely pointing out the obvious: that Anglo-Australians have a culture of individual food portions.

Are there any Anglo cultures that don't do the individual food portions? (not a rhetorical question, just curious - I can't think of any)

Most chinese don't use serving spoons and just use their chopsticks to pick food, so you really can't "load up".

And at any rate, wouldn't generally do so since it's seen to be pretty rude. (unless you've got an in-joke with your friends) Which isn't to say that no Chinese ever does, only that it probably wouldn't go unnoticed. You'd probably be the butt of friends/ relatives' jokes in the car on the way home. They'll call you stuff like 'hoover mouth' or 'the black hole' or 'lard ass' behind your back. heh heh

y

[ocpaul20]

I have to raise my hand and say that I feel a need to take a large chopstick-helping most times, rather than small bird-sized pieces.

Obviously I feel that there is not enough food for me, and I have to grab it before it disappears. I know, this is my problem and I need to work on it, however I dont often take large helpings into my dish which is another thing mentioned.

I am a veggie and I have noticed that, even though the people I am eating with, order lots of meat dishes, they often do not order many vegetabe dishes. Consequently, (because this is all I do eat) everyone else eats MY vegetables AND their meat dishes too :-) See my attitude problem right there? haha I need to go away and think seriously about this one. Good topic y.

[Madot]

Mea culpa! I apologise unreservedly. I now understand what you mean, Yonita. I do HOPE it isn't a matter of rudeness or gluttony. I think it's partly a hygiene thing (meant to be considerate of others when one has a cold as much as avoiding other people's germs), but it is also undoubtedly a carry-over from the Anglo tradition of family style serving, where you are expected to take a portion rather than a bite when you serve yourself. But now that you mention it, I realise that Chinese people DO take 'bites' and PROMISE to be more careful next time. Sorry.

Mado

[randall_flagg]

OK, I admit it: I guess I’m somewhat of a food-hoarder myself. Not a big timer, but still, I do it. Why? Because I think there’s not going to be enough for me of that one delicious food? Heavens no! Hygiene? Come on! No, I do I t because it is more convenient for me! When I got more food on my own plate that means I have to reach across that huge table fewer times. I can just lean back and start enjoying my “own” food without having to wait for the food to come around the next time. And I get at least some sense of how much I’m eating. It’s that simple. But perhaps I should consider not doing that anymore in the future?

[aeon]

I used to be guilty of this too, as I was just used to the western table convention of loading up your plate with what you are planning to eat of a particular dish. My wife cured me of it with (multiple) lectures on just how rude I was (inadvertantly) being...

[Quest]

Chinese Table Manners 101 [for dinning with your future mother in law]:

I reckon rice is food, but food here means 菜。

Without Rice:

1. Finish what's in your bowl first, before your pick more.

2. Always pick from your side of the plate/pot, if that nice piece is on the other side, too bad!

3. Pick what you can see, do not flip or dig into the food, or only do so moderately

4. Leave food for others, only get your fair share, even if you like it very much

5. If you have to pick from a plate far from you, while you carry it back, make sure you put your bowl under what's between ur chopsticks, so if anything drips or drops, it still falls into your bowl and not elsewhere. Only let it fall when you sit back into your seat though, don't put it in a bowl and carry the bowl back! [exception would be for chopsueys]

6. Speak less when you eat [not many ppl follow this rule now for sure]

7. If someone picks food for you, pretend to say no first then accept it and say thank you. [unless you are offered food consistently and you really don't need any more, then the emphasis should be on the "no" more than the "thak you"]

With Rice:

1. All of the above

2. If you are in someone's house, finish your rice, a bite of food should accompany a bite of rice. Always finish your rice, don't get more if you don't think you can finish. [if you are offered a feast, then your host would probably rather you finish the food than the rice, in that case, the food would take priority]

3. If you are in a restaurant [usually a feast], it's ok if you eat more food than rice, and leave some rice unfinished.

4. Pick up your bowl, don't leave it on the table. [i think this one's ok to violate if you are a foreigner, especially in a restaurant]. Hold it in a stable way, try to use your index and middile finger to stablize the side of the bowl, and ring and pinky to support the bottom. Eating with one hand is kinda odd if not rude, because you might tip the bowl and spill your food and rice.

5. While you are holding your bowl up, make sure your elbow gives enough space for the person next to you.

When you finish, put your chopsticks parallelly and nicely on the side of the empty bowl.

[geraldc]

I've never given the hygiene factor any thought, but I've grown up with chopsticks. Occassionally you see someone use the reverse end of their chopsticks if they're picking up something for someone, but most people don't seem to mind.

The other thing is there are times, when you need another persons help, eg.you pick up a piece of chicken, and it hasn't been cleanly cut, so several pieces of chicken come with it, normally someone will trap the other end, and you are free to pull just one piece away.

You grow up with your parents picking food for you and putting it in your bowl, so you learn the polite amount to take. I guess westerners are used to getting servings all in one go.

[anonymoose]

eg.you pick up a piece of chicken, and it hasn't been cleanly cut, so several pieces of chicken come with it

That's not a problem when you can stick the whole lot in your bowl

[mr.stinky]

i'm no expert of course, but since being here i just try to follow whatever the chinese

are doing. start slowly and follow their lead seems to be the most logical course of

action. i draw the line at spitting food on the floor, though.

i've seen my dining companions either holding their bowls or eating from them on the

table. mostly depends on what they're eating - drippy, gooey stuff they hold the bowl.

leaving it on the table frees you other hand for your cigarrette, or the numerous

shots of likker, or the essential cellphone.

i tend not to worry about the hygiene (any more). nothing they do at the table could

compare with what i imagine goes on in the kitchen. hey, when the waitress is

picking her nose while taking your order, what's the big deal about sharing dishes?

[roddy]

2. If you are in someone's house, finish your rice, a bite of food should accompany a bite of rice. Always finish your rice, don't get more if you don't think you can finish. [if you are offered a feast, then your host would probably rather you finish the food than the rice, in that case, the food would take priority]

Now that kind of surprises me, as I've always been told to leave food (be it rice or, y'know, food) to indicate that you have indeed been filled to bursting point and that the host has done an absolutely splendid job of providing for you. At any kind of 'hosted' dinner I'd be surprised if there wasn't leftover food. Eating with friends is different, but if it's an employer, potential client, etc, there's almost an expectation of excess - and finishing your rice will just get you another bowl of rice, like it or not.