What language is best/worst for speaking Chinese ?

[daxia]

Yo

I was thinking about how you can hear from what country allot of foreign Chinese speakers comes from by listening to how they speak. It seems that people from certain places has allot more trouble speaking correct Chinese then others. The nationalities I find it easiest to spot are: Americans, Japanese, Indonesians (can be tricky), Koreans, French and Middle East.

(Of course, there are exeptions like 大山 etc, who speaks perfect Chinese. Allot of ppl even say that he speaks better then most Chinese)

I think that especially Japanese ppl allot of times have trouble with Chinese pronunciation, especially the "qu" sound and the "shi" sound (they kick ass at learning everything else though).

The nationality who speaks the best Chinese, in my opinion, are Vietnamese people. In most cases it almost impossible, even for the Chinese themself, to tell wheter a person is Chinese or Vietnamese. The fact that they pretty much look the same doesnt make it easier.

What do you guys think about this ?

[heifeng]

As an English speaker here's my run down of my impression...

Americans: I can just hear that their tones sound like English, the chu qu issue is there...

British: just hear hints of a British accent....

Japanese: F+ H, n + ng are a bit mangled, good tones

Korean: yue, yu, sounds akward, z + zh too similar, good tones

Vietnamese: well it seems to me that they often speak cantonese, so if they speak mandarin, maybe it sounds more Southern accented Chinese.

Thai: the Huaqiao are really good, really can't tell they are not Chinese, but if they didn't learn it from a young age it's incredibly nasal or something....very interesting sounding...

I've also been able to pick out Russian, Italian, and French students just because they still have a bit of their native accent on pronouncing some words, but I can't remember which sounds in particular.

(It would be good to hear from native Chinese that have been exposed to many foreigners who can speak Chinese though, HOWEVER I think only GOOD Chinese language teachers can actually tell you which countries generate good Chinese speaking students. )

[wix]

I have met some Thai people that speak Mandarin with a terrible accent.

While L1 interference is a problem, I think with good instruction most people should be able to learn Mandarin without a strong accent. Perhaps speakers of certain languages will have difficulty with certain sounds though.

[HashiriKata]

Perhaps speakers of certain languages will have difficulty with certain sounds though.

This is true, but the difficulty can be overcome if one is determined enough.

Heifeng mentioned Thai Huaqiao speaking Chinese, but with regard Huaqiao, aren't we talking about a completely different question all together ???

[Hero Doug]

You know I've talked about this with a lot of native Chinese because I've been wondering which language has the nicest accent in Chinese. The only answer I've received (and I've asked a lot of people) is "that [iNSERT LOCATION OF CHINA] has the nicest accent."

Each and everytime they picked a regional accent of China, like BeiJing, Chang Sha, the Sounth of China, etc. Never once has anyone picked the French, or the Japanses. I'm always told that they can't hear any differences between foreigners when speaking. I think many have had limited contact with foreigners though.

[wannabeafreak]

The nationality who speaks the best Chinese, in my opinion, are Vietnamese people. In most cases it almost impossible, even for the Chinese themself, to tell wheter a person is Chinese or Vietnamese. The fact that they pretty much look the same doesnt make it easier.

Many Chinese-speaking Vietnamese are actually Chinese people who speak Cantonese all their life and just happen to be born in Vietnam. I've asked a few with surnames like Nguyen etc, and they said they are Chinese-Vietnamese and not Vietnamese, so its not any different to ABC, BBC, CBC.

[HashiriKata]

Many Chinese-speaking Vietnamese are actually Chinese people who speak Cantonese all their life and just happen to be born in Vietnam.

So, basically they're Huaqiao, just like the Huaqiao from Thailand, and should be excluded from this kind of comparison.

However, I believe Vietnamese can sound very good in Chinese (provided they've learned enough of the language), due to the similarity between the two languages.

[Language Guy]

There are quite a few Koreans in my Chinese class, and I can tell you that they are just as good if not better with pronunciation and acquisition of charactars, and are especially more careful about their tones than Americans.

But as above mentioned, they have a problem with the z/zh and the z/c recgonition and pronunciation. I personally helped my Korean friend after class one day for about an hour to help him hear and say the difference.

[heifeng]

That's because they need to pass their HSK exams otherwise they will lose status within their Korean inner circle of friends, let their parents down, and cause their neighbors to gossip!

haha, well they are a bit more hard core about characters and tones.

Some korean students seem to have some difficulty with er hua too.....

(yeah, on second thought Huaqiao should be eliminated from this discussion, although sometimes I do meet some huaqiao who speak mandarin but it's really southern sounding. Not to be anal about having to have northern pronouciation, but since you are studying Chinese, why not at least attempt to have some distinction b/t the z,c,s, zhi,chi,shi....at least just try it out once in a while)

[daxia]

There are quite a few Koreans in my Chinese class, and I can tell you that they are just as good if not better with pronunciation and acquisition of charactars, and are especially more careful about their tones than Americans.

I actually think that koreans have trouble with tones, especially girls for some reason. Sometimes they add a falling tone to end of the last word in a sentence. Like "ni2 ha3o6" (6 being a weird falling tone)

Ofcourse, after studying for some time most of theese problems disapear.

I think that most asians can learn to speak perfect Chinese if given enough time. Allot of Westerners seems to have more trouble with this. It's like they get to a point where their pronouciation ceases to improve. It's almost perfect. The tones and the pinyin are correct, but still there is something there that sounds different.

I, myself am from sweden, but I have pretty much perfect pronounciation. Although I guess thats becuase I have been living with Chinese people ever since I got here and spoke nothing but Chinese with them.

A thing that has helped me ALLOT with my pronounciation is :

I watch Chinese movies and then when I hear a catchy phrase or something cool, I train it over and over and record my voice and keep doing it untill I hardly hear any difference between the movie guy and my own recording.

It also helps to talk to Chinese people that doesnt know that you are a foreigner over telephone and in the end tell them and see what their reaction is.

[Lu]

The Koreans I knew almost all had a problem with yu. Kouyu, Hanyu etc always became kou-wie, han-wie. Even people who spoke fine Chinese had that problem.

The foreign accent I like best in Chinese is French. Once had a classmate who was Vietnamese French, he spoke the most beautiful Chinese.

[geek_frappa]

these are interesting observations. however, i must remind all the native chinese speakers here that such comments might discourage learners of your language.

the reason people learn language is to build bridges between cultures. by making people self-conscious about their accents destroys bridges and really turns people off to so-called Chinese culture. i'm not speaking out of turn. i've been reading this babble on various threads of this forum for 6 months.

for example, why is one native speaker's mandarin accent more accepted in public announcements in almost every mode of transportation in china? each person has an interesting accent and how they communicate.

does the "worst language" mean, if you speak this language, don't try chinese? i'm not upset, i'm just curious about what picking out the worst speakers adds to interest in Chinese language and culture. thanks for your kind replies.

[gato]

geek_frappa, I think all the posters you are referring to have been foreign learners of Chinese. At least they are in this thread.

[geek_frappa]

that is not true.

[heifeng]

If it helps, as a foreigner, I can understand almost all foreigner's Chinese even if Chinese people don't hehe. So if anything we have our own foreigner Chinese code if Chinese people really don't know what the Laowai is saying, but we understand each other...hmmmm

these are interesting observations. however, i must remind all the native chinese speakers here that such comments might discourage learners of your language

People who are easily discouraged won't really stick with Chinese anyway, so I don't think this post is going to lead to a sudden drop in enrollment as Chinese as a foreign language. These are simply some observations. It's actually refreshing if native speakers actually do point out ANYTHING about how a non-native speaker sounds while speaking Chinese other than giving the 'wow that's really good' speech.

[geek_frappa]

so I don't think this post is going to lead to a sudden drop in enrollment as Chinese as a foreign language.

true, but then again... "I don't think..." <---- Google this.

My observations are merely observations, not editorial comments on how "sensitive" Chinese people are. Learners are self-conscious about how the speak in front of the class for the first few lessons and many drop the classes.

Several people read your thread without signing in to the forums. It is on threads like these they will obtain their first impression of how Chinese will judge their learning ability.

That's because they need to pass their HSK exams otherwise they will lose status within their Korean inner circle of friends, let their parents down, and cause their neighbors to gossip!

oh, absolutely... for those who don't know, failure on HSK for some elite korean students is a life-ending experience ... ostracism due to failure of achievement... imagine that... hmm

[heifeng]

oh, absolutely... for those who don't know, failure on HSK for some elite korean students is a life-ending experience ... ostracism due to failure of achievement... imagine that... hmm

haha apparently you haven't met any of those students yet.

Well for the people who are undecided on whether or not to study Chinese, it is an interesting and challenging language that is worth the time to study, so don't give up before you start and read my posts with a grain of salt....

I guess I'm going to have to make this my new disclaimer in my signature of every post.

[QiHaoMing]

Actually, some of the worst pronunciation I've come across by foreigners learning Chinese has been from Vietnamese students. I studied in Kunming for a couple of years and due to Yunnan being close to Vietnam we had a lot of students coming from there. I found it really, really hard at times to understand some of the stuff the Vietnamese students would say. I had a few good Vietnamese friends from these classes too but damn were they hard to understand.

I think some of the best pronunciation coming from students in my classes were all from native English speakers. The tones could prove really difficult but we seemed to be able to get the pronunciation of pinyin down really well.

[cjbaker]

I enjoy hearing all the different accents of non-native Chinese speakers, as I do in English, my native language. Everyone's native language seems to give them particular advantages and disadvantages, (American) English speakers have clear n/ng distinctions, good sounding 儿化, difficulty with u/ü (chu/qu, shui/xue, my least favorite shuan/xuan etc.), something going on with syllable stress filling in for contour tones...I've heard French speakers who use the French R for 儿化 ("heure oua"), besides having difficulties with 'h', 'ng', dipthongs...I guess they're just lucky to have distinct u/ü!