她去法国刚留学回来 What is the structure here?

[anonymoose]

In a chat forum I was reading, someone wrote:

那个女孩子我们认识大概快10年了,她是上海的，她去法国刚留学回来,在法国时候，我们经常就聊天。

I don't understand the ordering of the words in the 她去法国刚留学回来 part. I understand it means "She went to study abroad in France and has just come back", but why isn't it 她去法国留学刚回来? Or is it that this is a shorter form of 她去法国刚留学完就回来 (or something like that) or what?

[studentyoung]

Or is it that this is a shorter form of 她去法国刚留学完就回来 (or something like that) or what?

Maybe the girl hasn’t finished her study abroad yet, but just been back for a short visit, so “完” is not so proper. Of course, all depends on the context.

Thanks!

[EEfree]

"她去法国刚留学回来" The grammar of this sentence is wrong.

This sentence means: 她去法国留学，刚回来

[againstwind]

In a chat forum I was reading

this is the heart of the matter.

it's a nonstandard expression. Because of haphazard typo or careless brainstorm, the one wrote down such sentence.

她去法国刚留学回来 part. I understand it means "She went to study abroad in France and has just come back"

i think order like 她去法国留学刚回来 is acceptable. and your comprehension should be right.

[Veronica Zhong]

^-^

Your understanding is right. In oral talk, adverbs can be put casually.

Even I can say, “他刚去法国留学回来。”“他去法国留学回来刚。”

They are the same. Just not formal.

[Quest]

I think 她去法国刚留学回来 is ok. Chinese is more about 语感. In daily conversations, non-standard ordering happens all the time.

[anonymoose]

In daily conversations, non-standard ordering happens all the time.

But (to me) it seems rather arbitrary to put 刚 in that position:

她去法国刚留学回来

It's almost like saying:

她去法刚国留学回来

(I know that's a stupid example, but to me, it seems like 去法国留学 should be one unit, and inserting 刚 willy-nilly isn't very logical.)

[it always surprises me with this kind of question how varied the responses can be. Some say it's OK, some say it's non-standard, and other say it's wrong. 真奇怪。]

[Quest]

I dont even think 她去法国刚留学回来 is non standard. At least when I hear this sentence, it wouldn't trigger an oddity alarm. It's just one way of saying it. It's the product of blending two sentences. 她去完法国；她刚留学回来。As I said 语感 is more important than 语法 in Chinese. 语感到了，有时候可以不按语法。

[anonymoose]

Thanks, Quest and everyone else. It makes a bit more sense to me now.

[aloha_cn]

Why do u think so much about grammar? Just notice the meaning of this sentence.

This sentence is expressing "the girl just returns from France". So the 刚 should be close to 回来, and 留学 is more close to 法国. That's all.

Sometimes Chinese has no grammar.

[anonymoose]

aloha_cn

I'm not sure what you mean by this:

So the 刚 should be close to 回来, and 留学 is more close to 法国. That's all.

But in response to

Why do u think so much about grammar? Just notice the meaning of this sentence.

I would say this: Understanding is one thing, and I did understand the meaning from the beginning. But I want to be able to reproduce native-like Chinese myself, and in order to do this, not only is it neccessary to have a good understanding of grammar, but it is also neccessary to understand to what extent formal grammar can be violated and distorted in practice.

[againstwind]

I would say this: Understanding is one thing, and I did understand the meaning from the beginning. But I want to be able to reproduce native-like Chinese myself, and in order to do this, not only is it neccessary to have a good understanding of grammar, but it is also neccessary to understand to what extent formal grammar can be violated and distorted in practice.

applaud!

[aloha_cn]

anonymoose

I would say this: Understanding is one thing, and I did understand the meaning from the beginning. But I want to be able to reproduce native-like Chinese myself, and in order to do this, not only is it neccessary to have a good understanding of grammar, but it is also neccessary to understand to what extent formal grammar can be violated and distorted in practice.

Yes, you're just right.

I just wanna say both 她去法国刚留学回来 or 她去法国留学刚回来 is correct in grammar but the later is acceptable. And 她刚去法国留学回来 feels a little more formal but I don't prefer in conversation.

But sometimes there is no business about Chinese grammar. In such cases to clarify context is more important.

[Altar_II]

"刚" can note that an action ends short before. while "留学回来" is together modified by “刚”，they "留学"and"回来" are faced as a combined action. Apparently the end of that combined action equals the end of "回来". So the sentence was noting that the action "留学回来" ended short before, hence equals that the action "回来" ended short before. "刚留学回来" = “留学刚回来”

[Altar_II]

"刚" can note that an action ends short before. while "留学回来" is together modified by “刚”，they "留学"and"回来" are faced as a combined action. Apparently the end of that combined action equals the end of "回来". So the sentence was noting that the action "留学回来" ended short before, hence equals that the action "回来" ended short before. "刚留学回来" = “留学刚回来”

It is sure that Chinese speaking is based on linguistic feeling. But that is not the reason for the mistaken idea that grammer plays no role in Chinese. Actually, in contrast to German and Russian grammer, the Chinese grammer is so much of an official norm for formal expression, but an introspection and logical induction of natural speaking. It is a system determined by (rather than determining) the way in which we speak.

Thus there's no reason to deny the existence of grammer once an unexplainable linguistic phenomenon is being faced. It would only indicate that the grammer theory is not consummate, but not that the grammer fails to display itself in that linguistic phenomenon. Grammer always appears everywhere no matter it plays the important role or the unimportant.