choosing locale for immersion study

[djwebb2004]

it's the frigging capital of china and the only city where you can learn standard Putonghua.

Redmini, the point is that this is not true. You would know that if you had read the thread. Beijinghua is not standard putonghua, and the accent is more standard in some cities in the north-east such as Changchun. Maybe you just surmised that Beijinghua was standard Chinese, but if you ask any Chinese person you will find out that it isn't. For the differences between Peking dialect and standard Mandarin, you could start by looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_dialect

[roddy]

Redmini is going to disappear anyway, unless each and every one of his / her posts stops plugging one particular organization. Anyway, "the only city where you can learn Standard putonghua" is patent nonsense. It's like saying you can't learn Arabic in London, which would be a great shock to SOAS.

[mpallard]

Although I am biased, I found Taiwan to be a great place to study Chinese. The people are friendly, it's safe, and since people are more used to seeing foreigners you don't get idiots yelling "HEEEELOOOOO" at you all the time (although, embarrasingly, it still happens on occasion).

Granted there is more English in Taiwan and that does get anoying at times, however I think there is a trade off to be had. You can choose a place that has total immersion, no English, but people will not know how to interact with foreigners. Or you can choose a place where more English is spoken but where people are more "normal" when dealing with foreigners.

Although I've only been to the Mainland on vacations it just seems to me like it would be harder to make friends there (I could be wrong). I'm not saying it's easy in Taiwan (or anywhere for that matter) but once you get your Chinese to a decent level and start joining clubs and sports teams outside campus you can make friends that way. You can immerse yourself quite well, but it obviously takes time.

Another plus is you don't have to worry about people trying to rip you off all the time, or beggars comming up to you every 5 minutes. I've been to Beijing and sure 天安門 was nice but I couldn't walk 10 feet without someone comming up to me wanting something. If I lived in Beijing I can't imagine I'd go there very often.

And also don't listen to people who say Taiwan doesn't speak "standard" Mandarin. No place speaks "standard" Mandarin and I have never spoken to someone from the mainland and not had them understand what I was saying.

So add Taiwan to your list. Assimilation or total immersion in Chinese society is impossible (for non-Chinese looking people anyway). However to the degree you can do it, I think it may be easier in Taiwan.

[redmini]

sorry for offending you with my apparent incessant "plugging of one particular company" but i was offering my two cents after reading several posts from people in this forum that asked for advice/opinions on any prior experiences with such companies. hey is that a crime? but, point taken.

oh, and standard mandarin is actually based on the beijing dialect.. the phonology aspect of it anyway.. its vocab is drawn across several different dialects in china. im quoting from wiki =)

[roddy]

No offense taken, hopefully none given either. 99% (well, maybe 95%) of the time anyone who signs up and then immediately posts links to a commercial organization will have links to that company.

[redmini]

if you put it like that roddy then of course im linked with the company seeing im on one of their blcu programs

btw mpallard does studying chinese in taiwan mean you learn traditional chinese? because i would love an opportunity to learn traditional characters.. but i guess that will only come after im relatively fluent in simplied chinese (whenever that may be).

[simonlaing]

Hi All,

Nanjing has some good points I wanted to promote. Especially if you're on that doesn't like waiting for buses in subzero weather. (Though the heating systems here had something to be desired it rarely gets below zero). This is near enough to Shanghai to beable to take weekend trips to party but far away enough so the other foreigners you'll see will be other students. The City is small with big bike lanes everywhere and nice large french oaks over the roads. It is much less dusty than Beijing and only occassionally has the smog of everyday SHanghai. There is a mountain full of trees and huge large smack in the middle of the city which is nice.

The studies are pretty good from the intense Nanjing normal Universty to the more relaxed Nanjing University. There is also a laid back friendlyness that people will chat in Chinese with you and won't immediately start talking english which happens in Shanghai. The universities are in the middle of the city also which is convenient for those over you who want to pay for studies with part time teaching. Fudan in Shanghai is far out there.

Also the dialect her is very slight, occasional mix ups of n and l s. And I think easier to talk to an understand local people.

(Also I think becuase of the war) Nanjing has had a history of univerisities and Studying, and so doesn't have the political baggage of Beijing or the Business Mindset of Shanghai. I was in Shanghai before but came to Nanjing so I could speak Mandarin with ordinary people something I found hard in SHanghai. And our CBA team usually wins the league

Anyway, Go Jiangsu Dragons,

have fun,

Simon:)

Anyway,

[flameproof]

I am just back from Beijing and I can not agree on the bad comments BJ got.

For a beginner to intermediate the accent really does not matter too much. I spoke with fairly low end people and had not much problem. Also listening to people talking was not too much of a challenge.

BJ is still FAR better then, let's say Shanghai, were people speak a completely different language that you REALLY can not understand. People were also very helpful and enthusiastic talking to me.

And really, how many BJers are you going to meet anyway? I met 1, the rest were weidiren from all over the country. I would go back there anytime for more study!