JoH Posted July 9, 2003 at 06:47 AM Report Posted July 9, 2003 at 06:47 AM Does anyone know of any good websites for learing some basic Shanghainese? I found one or two but none with sound files, which I could really do with as I've never even heard anyone speak it before... I'm only going to be there for a couple of days, but it would be nice to learn a few phrases before I go. thanks, Jo Quote
batmarj Posted July 9, 2003 at 12:29 PM Report Posted July 9, 2003 at 12:29 PM Would you be able to share the Shanghainese websites you found? I haven't been able to find any. I use a book that I bought in Shanghai called something like LET'S LEARN A LITTLE BIT OF SHANGHAI DIALECT it has cassette tapes that I used to play ALL the time. If you find any other books with tapes, or more preferably CDs please let me know. Thanks Quote
JoH Posted July 9, 2003 at 07:12 PM Author Report Posted July 9, 2003 at 07:12 PM Actually, I just found this, which has some useful links on it: http://www.csulb.edu/~txie/shanghaihua.html Including this one, which has good sound files, but the site is in Japanese: http://www.geocities.co.jp/CollegeLife/9181/kaiwa.html If you find anything else, let me know. Jo Quote
geek_frappa Posted October 21, 2003 at 06:22 PM Report Posted October 21, 2003 at 06:22 PM can anyone give us a quick shanghai-ese lesson? that would be great! Quote
pazu Posted October 28, 2003 at 07:08 PM Report Posted October 28, 2003 at 07:08 PM As stated in the TXIE's website, http://www.csulb.edu/~txie/shanghaihua.html Textbooks 《简明当代上海话教程(1)：基础上海话》汤志祥著，香港中华书局2001年出版[Fundamental Shanghainese Vernacular by Tang Zhixiang, Chung Hwa Book Co., (HK)Ltd, 2001](Price,Order Online) 《简明当代上海话教程(2)：上海话生活通》汤志祥袁仲昇著，中华书局(香港)有限公司2002年出版[Living Shanghainese by Tang Zhixiang and Yuan Zhongsheng, Chung Hwa Book Co.,(HK) Ltd, 2001](Order Online) (Comments) 《简明当代上海话教程(3):上海话商务通》汤志祥、李厚敦著,中华书局(香港)有限公司2002年出版 [business Shanghainese by Tang Zhixiang and Li Houdun, Hong Kong: Chung Hwa BookCo., (HK) Ltd., 2002]. (Order Online) The 3 books above are probably the best source to learn SHanghainese to date, the course has the following advantages: 1. with an accurate "pinyin" of Shanghainese (the Tang's Pinyin, probably a pinyin scheme made by the author) 2. with the Chinese script of Shanghinese. I found some other Shanghainese textbook using the closest approximate (pronounciation) Chinese characters to write Shanghainese, which is really strange. When I learnt Shanghainese, I not only wanted to learn the pronounciation but also the special writing scheme of it. e.g. "從搿笪去飛機場要勿要一個鐘頭?" (from here to the airport, need or not need an hour?) That from the context I found it fun that I could still understand most of the meaning, just the pronounciation is different. 3. They have some funny and interesting "cultural box" about Shanghainese slangs/life/style. That's something I found interesting enough even if you're not going to learn Shanghainese. But the 3 text books use Chinese (Mandarin Chinese) as the medium of instruction, so it's only good for you if you know enough Chinese. Quote
Guest greenpine Posted January 1, 2004 at 07:15 AM Report Posted January 1, 2004 at 07:15 AM shouldn't shanghai dialect be called shanghaiian instead of -ese? like hawaiian, malaysian Quote
Guest greenpine Posted January 1, 2004 at 04:02 PM Report Posted January 1, 2004 at 04:02 PM anyway, here is a site about 吳語 in general, shanghai dialect belongs to this more general group. http://wu-dialect.myrice.com/photo.htm Quote
Guest michellewing Posted February 17, 2004 at 03:40 PM Report Posted February 17, 2004 at 03:40 PM hehe, Im native Shanghainese. every message here seems so intesting/funny to me... actually in my thoughts, Shanghai dialect is not difficult to understand however hard to pronounce. The same is true with Cantonese. There are some basic grammas however usually there will be some exceptions due to the natrual custom. For people who want to learn Shanghai Dialect, I suggest u better learn Madarin or at least one type of Chinese first then change to Shanghainese, that will be better:P Quote
confucius Posted February 17, 2004 at 07:19 PM Report Posted February 17, 2004 at 07:19 PM Confucius to the rescue! I am bold enough to display my Shanghaihua talent here! Stand back everybody! "Xia ya nong" (Thank you) "Xia chi kei xin nin de nong" (Pleased to meet you) "Allah si hunin!" (I'm eating little shrimps) "Dankei" (Burp) "Lata!" (Dirty!) "Zeiwei!" (Goodbye!) Quote
ala Posted February 19, 2004 at 06:34 PM Report Posted February 19, 2004 at 06:34 PM Thank you: shashja non. (2nd syllable of 谢 is voiced, although sometimes sounds like ya due to slur of the voiced syllable, but it is not pronounced ya intentionally). Shja sounds like the Ja in French Jacques. Ala = Us/We, not I/me. I/me is pronounced ngu 我, wu 无, or eu 俺. 吃 or 喫 (to eat/drink/smoke) is not si, but in pinyin would be spelled: qik, with k=glottal stop, do not pronounce k. It sounds exactly like the chi in chicken. Also, that sentence is grammatically incorrect / awkward in expressing "I'm eating little shrimps." Should be something like "wu chich hwunin lahei", Or simply "wu leira chich hwunin" Or "wu lei chich hwunin lahei." What does "allah si hunin!" mean instead? ala chich hwunin! = Let's eat little shrimps! ala chich hwunin e. = We have of habit/tradition/custom of eating little shrimps, OR we can eat little shrimps (saying: ala weidach chich hwunin e clarifies the ambiguitiy to mean only 'we can eat little shrimps'). Quote
Quest Posted February 19, 2004 at 07:17 PM Report Posted February 19, 2004 at 07:17 PM allah si hunin! Ala is a Hun? Quote
confucius Posted February 19, 2004 at 11:56 PM Report Posted February 19, 2004 at 11:56 PM When I visited Shanghai I heard those Shanghai folks saying "allah" all the time as if they were praising the Muslim god, thus the quirky spelling. I'll take better notes next time I'm in that town. Quote
ala Posted February 21, 2004 at 12:09 AM Report Posted February 21, 2004 at 12:09 AM When I visited Shanghai I heard those Shanghai folks saying "allah" all the time as if they were praising the Muslim god' date=' thus the quirky spelling. I'll take better notes next time I'm in that town.[/quote'] Actually, I've seen Romanizations that spell the "ala" in we/us as "alla" or "allah". The "a" is short glottal stop, and so I guess the "ll" is double consonant (although that is confusing for English speakers). Some add the the -h because la is a short (though not glottal stop) sound. -la suffix on pronouns in Wu dialects is plural. "a" is probably derived from nga (older Wu pronounciation of 我; now ngu). Shanghainese has a tendency to pronounce most original -a endings now as -wu/-u：可 (ka --> ku)、科 (ka --> ku)、化 (hwa --> hwu)、下 (ha --> wu)、虾 (ha --> hwu)、夏 (nga --> ngwu)、马 (ma --> mwu)、、 But, it retains a lot of -a endings that Mandarin no longer retains as well (mostly pinyin -ie): 写 (sha)、谢 (shja)、蟹 (ha)、解 (kai --> ja)、界 (kai --> ka)、、 Mandarin's 我们 cannot quite compare to the possessiveness and sharpness of Shanghai and Ningbo's "ala". Quote
nnt Posted February 21, 2004 at 04:06 AM Report Posted February 21, 2004 at 04:06 AM allah si hunin!Ala is a Hun? Allah akbar! Alaric was a king of Wisigoths (but not a muslim...) and the Hun king was Atli (Attila) national hero of Hungarians (not just a Hun leader)... Quote
confucius Posted February 21, 2004 at 05:39 AM Report Posted February 21, 2004 at 05:39 AM nnt, is there a Hungarian idiom that you can add to that trivial tidbit? "*Dankei*, zeiwei!" Quote
nnt Posted February 21, 2004 at 06:17 AM Report Posted February 21, 2004 at 06:17 AM nnt' date=' is there a Hungarian idiom that you can add to that trivial tidbit?"*Dankei*, zeiwei!"[/quote'] No, but this one: Attila the Pun... Quote
Guest calling Posted March 14, 2004 at 08:30 PM Report Posted March 14, 2004 at 08:30 PM This post is awesome...let's keep going all right... Did anyone come across the different pronunciations of the same character using in various contexts . For example, the character "大"... 大学: dha wok 大人: du ning Quote
Quest Posted March 14, 2004 at 08:51 PM Report Posted March 14, 2004 at 08:51 PM 大人，大夫 PS: they are all "dai" in Cantonese. Quote
ala Posted March 15, 2004 at 06:11 AM Report Posted March 15, 2004 at 06:11 AM 大 in Shanghainese has two readings: du and da (both voiced "d", like in English; not like in pinyin d). 大 da usually refers to "great" or something of importance, grandeur, or signifying "a vast majority". 大 du typically just means "big/large" or "grown" (as in person's age). Basically da is used as a root (meaning "great") for words, and du is an adjective for big or old. da: 大桥 = dajO = bridge (great bridge) 大学 = da'ngoch = college (the great learning) 大熊猫 = dashjoNmo = giant panda (the great bear-cat) 大象 = dashjaN = elephant 大英 = da'iN = Great Britain 大清 = dachiN = Qing Dynasty (Great Qing) 大使馆 = dasikeu = embassy 大概 = dakei = probably 大部分 = dabuven = mostly 大巴士 = dabasi = tour bus 大平原 = dabin'ngyu = the Great Plains 代表大会 = deipyo dawei = representative assembly 大都市 = datuzi = metropolis du: 大城市 = du zeNzi = a big city (notice it's not 大都市 which is da-) 大人 = du-niN = adult (big, grown man) 小人 = shO-niN = child (small man) 老大 = LOdu (single word) = eldest (among siblings). LO and du experience tone sandhi as one word. 老・大额 = LO du e = really big. LO and du are pronounced separately. 没大没小 = mach du mach shO (person acting not his age and treating others without regard to their age.) 大小 = dushO = size (large-small) 架大额大象！ = kà du e dashjaN! = such a large elephant! 搿本书老大额。 = guppen si LO du e = this book is really big. 送拔伊了一张大生日卡片。 = soNpach yi le ittzaN du saNnich k'aap'i. = I gave him a large birthday card. interesting, huh? Are there other dialects that do that? In no way is da considered more formal than du. Da is only used as roots to words, it's never used as a separate adjective. You wouldn't be able to appear more learned or formal by pronouncing du as da; it would just be incorrect. There is no such thing as 大da城市. d-, b-, g-, ng-, z-, j-, shj- are voiced initials (which Mandarin doesn't have). k-, t-, p-, tz- = pinyin g, d, b, and z respectively. k'-, p'- = pinyin k and p, respectively sh-, ch- = somewhat like English sh-, ch-; different from pinyin x or q -N = either -n or -ng, depends on the vowels and initials -O = open O, not pinyin's -ao, nor the -o in "no" or "hot". close to the -o in "shorts" Quote
Quest Posted March 15, 2004 at 08:59 PM Report Posted March 15, 2004 at 08:59 PM all are pronounced "dai" in Cantonese with the same tone, except 老大 which could be pronounced with a different tone. Quote
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