hsk prep book translations, 不知好歹

[kudra]

I am working out some samples from "An intensive course of HSK" and came across this from section 2

55. 别 A 生气, B 你 C 能和这种不知D好歹的人一般见识呢？

怎么

I know the answer is C, what I don't know is a fluent translation of the resulting sentence.

Thanks to Adsotrans I know to group "不知好歹" as "not know what's good for one," but even so, I end up with something clunky like.

"Don't be angry, how is it you are able to experience/have knowledge of such a person who doesn't know what's good for himself?" Or maybe it's something more like, "Don't be angry, how can you behave(share experience) like an ignorant person (who doesn't know what's good for himself)."

Obviously I am missing something here. Any suggestions?

[HashiriKata]

I don't see you've missed anything important there (especially in this sort of situation with very limited contextual information). My attempt is just slightly different from yours:

Don't be angry. How can you lower yourself to the same level with this kind of idiots?

(Or perhaps: Don't debase yourself by getting angry with this kind of idiots!)

[kudra]

thanks HK.

I guess in 别生气, 你怎么能和这种不知好歹的人一般见识呢？The 一般 has the meaning of lowering to some common level. Also I am curious if there is a pattern. Basically I have never seen (or forgotten learning) 见识.

和 X 一般见识

or

和 X 见识

do these work as pattern? Is there a generic pattern translation? Perhaps:

Lower (s.t.,s.b.) to the level of X?

or

Behave like X?

Thanks.

[HashiriKata]

Ok, this is my interpretation (after consulting a dictionary ):

一般 = like, the same

见识 = knowledge, experience

From the above, 一般见识 has become an idiom, a fixed phrase meaning "to lower oneself to the same level as (someone else)" (= as if one has the same knowledge/ experience as (someone else)).

Example: 不必跟孩子一般见识！= No need to behave like a child!

[kudra]

I realize in the original example above, the context was as you say "to lower oneself to the same level as (someone else)." But does it have to be lowering. How about this

如果你要和老师一般见识，你先得几年努力地学习。

Does this work?

edit: actually 一般见识 is right there in pleco -- (lower oneself to) the same level as s.b.

Still can it work in a positive sense or does it just sound weird?

[HashiriKata]

Still can it work in a positive sense or does it just sound weird?

From all the examples I've come across, I believe this phrase can only be used negatively. You may be able to verify this via google?

[HashiriKata]

Kudra,

I've found an entry of 一般见识 in a dictionary of usage and it stated that the word "knowledge" (见识) here refers specifically to superficial/ roguish knowledge (浅薄的见识), so the phrase can only be used negatively.

Interestingly, it also gave an example which seems to be very apt advice for not engaging in some types of forum's "debates": 他们都是小孩子，你别跟他们一般见识！