Fiesty foreigner in Beijing

[againstwind]

向这位英雄般的女士致敬！

我们需要更多像这位女士一样勇敢的人！

这司机真丢人呐！

[HashiriKata]

Thanks for the interest some people have shown in my earlier post.

OK, let's be straight talking: I'd certainly bow to the woman if she did this in her own country, but I just don't happen to appreciate the idea of people going to another country to uninvitedly teach people how to behave. It'd be extremely simple minded to think that Chinese people don't know that driving on a cycle lane is wrong and dangerous...

(And don't forget: Bush certainly thinks that he is doing Iraqi people a favour in bombing them!)

Let me tell you a traffic scene I myself witnessed:

I was once in a country with a strong presense of the American army. In the street where I was walking there happened to be a traffic accident involving a pedestrian and a motocycle. The local police then had to stop the traffic to take evidence of the accident, drawing the position of the motorcycle in the road, interviewing the witnesses, etc...At that time, there was a big American army truck among the traffic being stopped, but this truck did not want to wait until the accident was cleared to resume driving. It just simply rode on, and onto the motorcyle lying in the middle of the road, speeding ahead, leaving the motocyle behind as a sheet of metal, with the local police helplessly looking on...

[roddy]

It'd be extremely simple minded to think that Chinese people don't know that driving on a cycle lane is wrong and dangerous...

Of course they know! Some of them, however, still do it, and deserved to be stopped and sent back on their selfish way!

Thanks for the story about the US Army, I look forward to understanding its relevance one day.

[Lu]

Hashirikata: In your story, the American truck equals not the foreign woman with the bike, but the guy in the car in the bicycle lane. They both break the law and put people in danger. It doesn't matter where they come from, they are just wrong.

The woman with the bike is not enforcing her own rules on people who disagree with her, she is in fact helping the Chinese enforce their own laws. When cars break this law and go into the bicycle lane, this is a danger to both the woman, and the thousands of Chinese people on the same lane. You might say she's interfering with things that are none of her business, but you might also say she cares too much about China to let bad things like this happen.

I say kudos to her for what she does, wish I was brave enough to do that.

[Shadowdh]

While I agree that motorists in a cycle lane (and this is by no means endemic to China only) sucks rear, I understand where Hashirikata is coming from... its amazing how many think they have the automatic right to tell or teach another anything... (yes yes I know the come back or reversal here... I am also guilty of it and of course I am right... well that is until my wife enters the conversation when miraculously I am wrong... all the time)...

[HashiriKata]

Thanks for the story about the US Army, I look forward to understanding its relevance one day.

You certainly may if you try but if you don't, I still respect your right not to understand, roddy! I won't force myself on others like those characters in the stories above.

[cjbaker]

Ha, good for her! I've wanted to do that so many times. Agreed, in many cases, as a foreigner it's best to go with the flow and not criticize your host country for differences with your own. Still, you're a participant in the country you live in, a person - even as a foreigner, being critical of others for being rude is not outside normal expectations, even in China. It's interesting, Chinese themselves tend to get mad about things like cars in the bike lane and agree with me, while the ones who get mad when they hear things criticized by foreigners tend to be foreigners who have never lived in China. You wouldn't expect immigrants to a Western country to just "take it", would you? The ones I know sure don't...

[bianfuxia]

but I just don't happen to appreciate the idea of people going to another country to uninvitedly teach people how to behave. It'd be extremely simple minded to think that Chinese people don't know that driving on a cycle lane is wrong and dangerous...

HashiriKata, your view is fascinating.

But can you seriously draw a parallel between a white person trying to follow the laws of the country she has chosen to live in, and either the US action in Iraq OR some story about the US Army truck messing up an accident scene? I fail to see the connection.

You are imposing so many prejudices onto this scene.

First, you state in your earlier post that "even the dumbest assume they can come and teach". Well, how do you know SHE is dumb? Second, you assume she has come to China "uninvitedly" to "teach people how to behave". Where's your evidence? Based on the story and the photographs ALL you can state for sure is that she is white, and she stood up to a blatant law-breaker. Third, you assume she is "extremely simple minded" to think Chinese people don't know the dangers and illegality of driving in the bike lane. Yet there is neither evidence for her simple-mindedness nor evidence that the guy in question actually knew it was dangerous or illegal.

Indeed, whichever way you cut it, the guy needed to be told: he either didn't know, and she's done the guy a civic favour, one human-being to another; or, he knew but didn't care, in which case she's done the right thing for society.

Finally, your objection to these scene apparently comes from a distaste for Americans (because both your elaborations refer to the actions of the US government and military). But pray tell, how do you tell from these images that the lady in question is not Swiss, or Swedish, or from Liechenstein, or some equally inoffensive nationality. OR, how can you be sure that even if she is American, she isn't a card-carrying member of the Green party (she is on a bike after all and not in a Hummer) who has voted for Ralph Nader or Jesse Jackson her whole life?

Basically you have here an endearing story of the meek standing up for what is right against the strong and arrogant, and doing so peacefully. Yet because she was white and he was Chinese, you can't accept that such a transaction between two human beings can be iinspiring for those of us in this world who are tired of big strong people doing what they feel like despite the presence of clear rules that are designed solely for the safety and convenience of us all. Instead, on the basis of nothing but prejudice you build up a narrative of white imperialism and liken it to the war in Iraq.

I don't deny there are many people from the US, Europe, Australia and similar places who think they are uber-righteous because they come to China and similar places and try to tell the locals how to cut their lunch. Some are lefties, some are righties, and some are religious types.

But this doesn't imply that every single time a white member of this society says "hey, you can't drive your big car down the bike lane" to a person who knows this damn well but doesn't care, the first person is a latter-day missionary whose self-ordained purpose in life is to tell the ignorant natives how they should lead their lives.

It's a local narrative, dude. Weak law-abiding citizen vs. strong law-breaker citizen. Peaceful protest wins the day. I can't see the problem if you take this for what it is.

Yay to her!

[yonitabonita]

OK, let's be straight talking: I'd certainly bow to the woman if she did this in her own country, but I just don't happen to appreciate the idea of people going to another country to uninvitedly teach people how to behave.

(

I also don't like the idea of people going to another country to uninvitedly teach people how to behave. But like many posters have already pointed out, it's not like this woman is teaching/ imposing any values that are foreign here. Seperating vehicle lanes from cycling lanes is a public safely measure created by Chinese people to benefit Chinese people.

And as you say yourself,

it's not as if Chinese people don't know that driving on a cycle lane is wrong and dangerous

Being a grown man, the driver ought to know better. So what's wrong with asking someone who's being an asshole, to stop being one so that the rest of society can live more safely.

And don't forget: Bush certainly thinks that he is doing Iraqi people a favour in bombing them!)

Are you suggesting that it's not in the Chinese community's interests to enforce road traffic rules? Are Chinese people being hurt by this in some way that can allow you to compare this situation with the bombing of Iraqi people?

Are the woman and Bush analogous in some way?

I can't see the point you're trying to make. Or rather I can see it but I think it's a bad one.

Y

[md1101]

i say congratulations to that lady.

As for my say on HashiriKata, I think i know the angle that you're coming from. You don't like the self righteous bastards demanding that their customs be followed.

but the important thing here is that she is NOT enforcing western standards but merely enforcing the standards that China is in fact trying to enforce itself. she should have every right to expect the rules are followed.

Would a westerner in China be wrong to demand that theft and murder laws be enforced? Or is because of the fact he/she is a foreigner deem her a mere uninvited guest not worthy of a citizens rights?

anyway i admire her guts. like roddy i too find myself ignoring most of the queue jumping, traffic violations in china now. sometimes i even jump the queue myself (particularly when i find im actually moving backwards because of everyone else jumping the queue). this lady has given me a wake up call!

[roddy]

Should we get T-shirts made?

[outcast]

Scenes like this make my blood boil. As long as they're from a Western country, even the dumbest think that they're clever enough and are licensed to teach anyone anywhere!

She was simply doing what other chinese people were thinking, yet would never think about doing because they are too spineless to stand up for themselves.

[johnd]

Are we sure this is a dedicated bicycle lane? In Shenzhen the bicycle lanes are also for local traffic, u-turns and taxi rat runs. All totally legit.

[heifeng]

I don't know about bicycle lane shirts, but

let's get shirts made that say 先下后上!

嘎嘎嘎

[md1101]

I don't know about bicycle lane shirts, but

let's get shirts made that say 先下后上!

lol... though i think we'd all look like a bunch of self righteous pricks

[carlo]

I have to kill 5 minutes so here's my thoughts. Jumping the queue and breaking the law were not a part of Chinese culture last time I checked, nor are they included in most people's definitions and understanding of Chinese culture. The gentleman in the picture does not seem to have any qualms about "forcing himself on others", either.

Also it seems a bit insulting to think that one must be a foreigner to do what many Chinese do every day: uphold the law, or at least their subjecytive understanding of it. If this lady had been Japanese, say, no blogger would have taken her picture and she would just have been one of the many locals who regularly defy the Orientalist stereotype about the Chinese being 'spineless'.

I fail to see how this has anything to do with Western culture either. In a 江湖 society or in a wuxia novel, they would have chopped each other's heads off.

[Hero Doug]

Not much more to be said here.

I'll agree with HashiriKata that I also don't like other's pushing "their personal" values on others. I certainly wouldn't like someone to come in my house and tell me to take my feet of my sofa; nor would I like someone to tell me to get my car the hell out of the bike lane, not that I'd go in one.

No one like's being told what to do, but the difference is that if I were to drive in the bike land I'd deserve being told off.

[MarkKang]

Jumping the queue and breaking the law were not a part of Chinese culture last time I checked, nor are they included in most people's definitions and understanding of Chinese culture.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with that. The breaking of laws, not to mention unwritten rules of etiquette and civility, are so universal here that I don't see how you can not say it is cultural.

Laws against bribery

Labour laws

Safety laws

Environmental protection laws

Tax laws

Cheating on tests and fake diplomas

IPR

and of course traffic laws

All are so frequently broken in this country, it defies any explanation but imbedded culture. Or, maybe we should argue lack of culture. The nearly universal perspective is- If I can take advantage of my position, and break the law (without getting caught) to get/do what I want, I will.

Yet I know some Chinese with levels of integrity that would cause them to stand out in any Western society. They are far too few though.

[889]

Am I the only one who thinks she was consciously re-enacting that June 4 photo?

[owen]

I am with the majority here in feeling that the guy shouldn't have been there and the skin of the person (we don't know if she is a visitor/tourist or has been living there for decades) who 'told' him so should matter not at all.

At the same time (and perhaps this is what HashiriKata is getting at - minus the tangential american tank anecdote), I agree with MarkKang that maybe ultra strict adherence to rules is decidedly not part of the culture. I wrote maybe, but in my experience i would say most certainly. Thus, in my previous post I stated that I commend her action but as for myself, I don't think I would have taken it so far. But perhaps thats just cowardice.