Survey on self-defense

[nitropuppy]

After reading the thread on wrong things to say to taxi drivers, I had an interesting query cross my mind. I would love some input from ex-pats that have extensive knowledge of the chinese legal system.(or the way they perceive things to be done)

Let's forget about the quiveling over a few yuan for a taxi and getting roughed up for insults. I'm interested in the ramifications of legitmate self-defense. For instance, let's say I were to come back early to my apartment, and found a local thug in my apartment. He's tied my wife up and injured her, and he's in the middle of cleaning us out. What should I do?

A. Take the bastard out in a vicious manner, tie him up in tuct tape and call the police?

B. Yell and scream and hope he runs away, and then call the police?

C. Give him the contents of my wallet too and beg him and his gang to leave us alone?

What are the rules on self-preservation? How far can the "foreigner" go? Or is the foreigner always wrong?

What about self-defense hardware? ie; security baton, pepper spray, stun guns, brass knucles, ect? I can't find much on the web regarding these issues. What is the level of force that would be considered acceptable/unacceptable? What hardware's legal?

I ask these questions because as an example of my country's people, I want to show our better traits to the chinese. I am well aware of the perceptions of americans. (and admittedly some are justified) Loud, brash, self-importance, ect, ect. I always try to walk softly and be a gentleman. But, my culture is part of me. Much like some of my British, Irish, and Aussie allies, I can't be pushed into a corner. If a fight is inevitable, I'll lash out to inflict maximum damage. (I hope that day never comes)

I ask this question thread so I won't act instinctively if it could land me in deep legal trouble. I'm seriously curious about the chinese view of self-defense. Hell, in america you blast the thief through the back wall with your 12.gauge shotgun, and the town throws you a party. (only in red states)

**quick caviet: I know chinese crime rates are lower than america. I love the chinese people and their wonderful culture. My questions should in no way be interpreted to impune, malign, or disparage the chinese people in any way. It's just a rumination on a "worst case" scenario. (sh)

[roddy]

I think you're clouding the issue by asking how far the "foreigner" can go - because legally speaking you have exactly the same rights here as a Chinese person has on this issue, there's no way the law says "unless he's foreign, in which case he just has to accept it as a part of Chinese culture."

I can see how you might hit differences in implementation - local cop figures you can easily afford a fine, so decides he might as well decide it was your fault - but in terms of letter of the law, Joe and Zhou are on exactly the same footing here.

I reckon anyway. I have no idea what the actual law says. The Criminal Law covers intentional assault in Article 234, but I couldn't see anything about self-defense. Didn't read the whole thing though . . .

[adrianlondon]

Had you been in the UK, your question could have been asked with exactly the same level of confusion and intrigue.

There's no set answer in the UK; each case is decided on its merits and there have been some high profile (ie oddly popular for no real reason) cases. There's not a set amount of defence that can be used. It comes down to something waffly like "reasonable force" which, of course, you then need to argue in court.

If you were walking back from the dinner table with a sharp knife in your hand and used it against a burglar "in a panic", you'd probably be ok. If you went to the kitchen to grab said knife and then used it, you wouldn't be ok (unless, of course, you can prove that you genuinely thought it necessary). The UK loves vague laws. I believe it's to stop people finding too many loopholes

[flameproof]

Be careful with self defense. A German family of 4 got hacked to death in SH a few years ago when they came home with burglars in their place.

I don't want you to hit the news in this way.

http://english.people.com.cn/english/200007/14/eng20000714_45547.html

[Jonny Wang]

If anything, I'd guess that a foreigner (at least from an influential western country like the U.S., UK, etc.) would get off more lightly than a local would in the case of a serious crime or instance of self defense.

If a local guy robs a bank, he gets a bullet in the head after a two day "trial." If I robbed a bank, I'm guessing that wouldn't happen. The Chinese wouldn't want to piss off an important trading partner / political counterpart (my home country). A local might also get a bullet in the head for drug-dealing, but I'm guessing even those African thugs dealing in Sanlitun wouldn't get capped for the same crime. So, it might be a logical extension that if you crossed some kind of line in self-defense, the local authorities might give you a pass because you are a foreigner.

Even with less serious stuff, I think it's the same way. Foreign students ride unlicensed, illegal motorcycles all over Beijing and Tianjin without fear of repercussions b/c they assume the cops don't want the hassle of messing with a foreigner. (at least that's my impression)

Last month a Korean student was brutally raped and killed in her own home here in Tianjin. I heard from a friend that about a million cops showed up at her apartment when this was discovered. I doubt that would happen with a local crime victim. The Chinese are very sensitive to the security of foreign guests/residents. Just part of their natural tendency towards being good hosts, I think.

[Hero Doug]

Hearing stuff like this makes me wish I had bar's on my windows. :

It was kind of nice when I first got here and was obilvious to all this kind of stuff. If it was always one person robbing you I wouldn't worry, but it seem's it's typically a gang, which even using the most bruital self-defence tatics can't be fended off.

Kind of off-topic here, but sort-of on topic:

Do they have home alarm systems here? It wouldn't be a bad idea to set-up a make-shift system. Motion sensors to trigger a red-light outside your door would be enough to let you know if your house is empty or not. Should be cheap as well. Or, if you wanted to be intense you could get the little cameras like the buses have.

"What is the thieves cut the wires you say, you wouldn't be able to see inside." i say that'd also be a good indication not to go inside.