"Helloooooo....."

[Hero Doug]

I see the posts are starting to distort the point of an genuine hello and a hellllloooo from a jackass.

I agree with everyone else when saying that if someone say's hello approaching me, or is genuine then why not say hello back.

EDIT: Throughout writing this post I think I have a better insight into the Hello Factor.

It's done (Well the kind of hello that annoys me) like a kid in Canada. Kids just wait until their like 50ft away, and at the top of their lungs yell something to piss you off, and run away. A 10 year old in Canada knows better then that, but a 25 or 30 year old person here has less maturity in that reguard.

So, yes I'm summing it up to a lack of maturity and intelligence, and that'll make it so much more tolerable. At least I'll be able to walk away knowing their a stupid F/<|<

[gougou]

btw does anyone know if talktalk china is only accessable from comps in foreigners apartments?

As mentioned in the third post of this thread, they shut down.

[heifeng]

Do you guys only get "hellooooed"

Here's what I usually hear when I walk by people

高个儿

俄罗斯 ...DA! (followed by other stuff I don't understand...)

heloooo

laowai

Without a doubt, I am in many many peoples photos. I don't even mind the touristy photos that much, but I really hate people using their cell phones to 'secretly' take photos....that's even worse!!

[aimei]

Yes we only get helloed and also the occassional "Wo shou hua ni ting dong ma"?? And yeah it doesn't really bother me if people ask politely for the pics either, just when they try to do it without my knowledge. I know many of the people who be sneaky about it have never seen a foreigner, but I can't help but feel like I'm some sort of zoo exhibit.

Guoguo, now that the site is taken down is there gonna be an archive, do you know? I'm depressed that was a great blog....

[imron]

I think it's unlikely that the archives will be put back up, but you can still access many of the older posts using the google cache, or the wayback machine

[mandarinstudent]

Ive already said it in the "laowai" thread, but here is my take on the whole thing:

http://whocares-frank.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!2BB3AE2605C2522D!179.entry

[imron]

Well, it's good to know that you've found nothing in China to complain about except the other foreigners.

I have one question though, if the person yelling Heeelllooooo is some rich guy in an Audi, and obviously far better off than me, am I allowed to complain then?

The thing is, everyone needs to vent steam sometimes, and this doesn't necessarily mean you don't realise or appreciate that most of the time you're being treated very well by the people around you. Also, not everyone complaining about these things is an English teacher who's just come to China for the ride. Even people who've been in China for a long time, and who have a good understanding of Chinese language and culture, and who otherwise have a deep affinity with China, find this stuff annoying/frustrating, and every now and then need to vent.

Just because you're socially/financially better off, or being treated better than the people around you, doesn't mean you lose the right to complain.

[mandarinstudent]

Just because you're socially/financially better off, or being treated better than the people around you, doesn't mean you lose the right to complain.

Actually, in this situation I think you do lose the right because you came of your own volition.

I have one question though, if the person yelling Heeelllooooo is some rich guy in an Audi, and obviously far better off than me, am I allowed to complain then?

Everyone knows it isn't the people in Audis that are doing the rude things. 90% of the time (of course, not ALL of the time, but most)it is the poor, uneducated countryside people that make up 75-80% of the Chinese population that are being "rude".

Well, it's good to know that you've found nothing in China to complain about except the other foreigners.

Of course I think there are things to complain about in China. I just think I have lost any right to complain because:

1. I can leave at any time.

2. I am sucking money out of the Chinese economy.

3. I am SO much better off than the average Chinese person just beacause of my white skin. I realize that my money-making white skin is also going to incite racism. That is the tradeoff.

I'm from the US and it always irritated the hell out of me when my foreign friends who were there to make money (either to send back home or to save up and return to their country as a rich man/woman) bitched about the US. The US is good enough to take money from, but so terrible to live in? The same thing can be said about foreigners in China. I just don't want to be one of those people.

[roddy]

You might have lost your right to complain - personally I'd say you haven't, but if you want to give it up, ok. But there are plenty of people putting money in to the Chinese economy, or who are relying on more than the color of their skin to make a living - foreign students, and pretty much anyone with a job except perhaps the very bottom layer of the English teaching sector, for example.

[imron]

Actually, in this situation I think you do lose the right because you came of your own volition.

I just think I have lost any right to complain because:

1. I can leave at any time.

2. I am sucking money out of the Chinese economy.

So does a Chinese person immigrating to Australia/US/UK lose the right to complain about racism/poor treatment/things they don't like because they came of their own volition, are going there because they can earn more money/have a better life than in China, and can return more or less anytime they want?

And how about those foreigners that maybe didn't come to China completely of their own volition (maybe they are married to/are the child of someone who got shipped out here by their company). Is it more ok for them to complain about behaviour they dislike, than it is for me? Where do you start to draw the lines of who can and can't complain, or is nobody living in a foreign country allowed to complain about things they don't like?

I can understand your point about how people need to be more appreciative of what they have, and realise how lucky they are, but *many* of the foreigners in China do realise this. Yes there are also many who come here to leech off society, but not everyone is like that, and sometimes venting about it to other people who know/understand what you're going through can be a healthy way to keep sane, rather than keeping all that rage bottled up inside, until one day you finally snap. Also, there's a difference between the occasional gripe/vent, and constant bitching and moaning.

I just don't think it's as black and white as you're trying to make out that it should be.

[imron]

Everyone knows it isn't the people in Audis that are doing the rude things.

Fair enough, but what if it's the rich business man with the Audi, at dinner trying to force me once again to drink baijiu/beer (and making me feel very uncomfortable for not doing so) even though I've made it very clear (in Chinese, and on several occasions) that I don't drink. Bearing in mind that I'm not at the dinner of my own volition, but have been coerced into it on the pretense of something else (because I actively try to avoid being placed in such positions because I know how they'll turn out). Am I allowed to complain about this aspect of Chinese culture that I don't like?

[mandarinstudent]

So does a Chinese person immigrating to Australia/US/UK lose the right to complain about racism/poor treatment/things they don't like because they came of their own volition, are going there because they can earn more money/have a better life than in China, and can return more or less anytime they want?

I would say pretty much, however it is not quite the same. Most foreigners that come into China are educated and more well off than the people that are guilty of belittling them. The foreigners sit in Starbucks sipping on a 40 kuai coffee complaining about how horribly they are treated by the rude "commoners" while the Chinese that are guilty of the racism or rudeness go home to their shacks or toiletless apartments packed with 8 people. You don't see what is wrong with this picture?

In the US/Canada/UK, etc., I would say that the foreigners have a little (not much) more room to complain. The situation is reversed. The poor Chinese (or whatever nationality) are sitting in a cramped apartment complaining about racism while the person that is guilty of racism is 9 times out of 10 better off. If the Chinese (or whatever nationality) is educated and well off in the US, they probably aren't experiencing much racism or rudeness to complain about. The difference is that in the US/UK, etc., 80% of the population are not desloate countryside people.

I liken this to when I see a rich person complaining about how bad their life is. I just want to punch them in the mouth. It is just my opinion that people that are higher up on the status totem pole, no matter what country, shouldn't be bitching, especially when the bitching is about what PUT you high on the totem pole (i.e. China).

But there are plenty of people putting money in to the Chinese economy, or who are relying on more than the color of their skin to make a living - foreign students, and pretty much anyone with a job except perhaps the very bottom layer of the English teaching sector, for example.

I am not saying I give up my right because of my "lowly" place in the English teaching stratosphere. (By the way, I am actively studying Chinese to change this situation. I have a degree in finance and am not just planning on coasting forever on my English ability alone. The same could not be said for a LOT of people here.) My point is that whether you are an English teacher, CEO, publisher, engineer, whatever, you are better off than your Chinese counterpart. That is why I think I should give up my right to complain. Besides, if you took a poll of foreigners in China, I would be willing to bet that the vast majority are teachers making money from their skin color.

Regarding the people just studying in China, I said in my post that they kind of have a right to complain because they aren't benefiting from China, just giving to China.

Fair enough, but what if it's the rich business man with the Audi, at dinner trying to force me once again to drink baijiu/beer (and making me feel very uncomfortable for not doing so) even though I've made it very clear (in Chinese, and on several occasions) that I don't drink. Bearing in mind that I'm not at the dinner of my own volition, but have been coerced into it on the pretense of something else (because I actively try to avoid being placed in such positions because I know how they'll turn out). Am I allowed to complain about this aspect of Chinese culture that I don't like?

I would say, yes, you can complain based on the reasons I stated above.

[roddy]

I don't think you are making any sense. I am, however, going to yell rude words at the next rich person I see. After all, they can just leave, and they probably have a better life than me.

[mandarinstudent]

I don't think you are making any sense. I am, however, going to yell rude words at the next rich person I see. After all, they can just leave, and they probably have a better life than me.

Are you a poor, uneducated person from the countryside? Ok then, you can't draw the same parallel here.

[roddy]

I'm poorer and less-educated than many. If I chose the right branch of Starbucks I can find loads of them all in one place - anyone want to join me this afternoon?

[mandarinstudent]

I'm poorer and less-educated than many. If I chose the right branch of Starbucks I can find loads of them all in one place - anyone want to join me this afternoon?

Im willing to bet that you are at least college graduated. You are saying that this is comprable to someone who has little or no education and lives in horrible standards? Your behavior should be the same as theirs? You don't think that you should know better compared to them? You can't possibly think your argument makes sense.

[heifeng]

Actually, just to change the tone of this post a bit, I think that a little humor goes along way! Hellooooaaaa (didn't you know it's actually 3 syllables now) and laowai are harmless little things that you just need to get use to....remember mother saying sticks and stones ....and I am rubber you are glue.....

Secondly, I personally wouldn't really concern myself with the activities of other foreigners so much in China. Everyone has their reasons for being here period.

By the way, I am actively studying Chinese to change this situation. Im not just planning on coasting forever on my English ability alone. The same could not be said for a LOT of people here.)

Congratulations then. There should be an award for those who are only temporarily coasting on their English skills.

小样儿你没听过五十步笑百步吗?.

Thirdly,

even though I've made it very clear (in Chinese, and on several occasions) that I don't drink

Man you can't do business without drinking in China!!!haha j/k

[mandarinstudent]

小样儿你没听过五十步笑百步吗?.

听过了, but I am not a pot calling the kettle black, I openly admit that as of right now I am a lowly bottom feeder English teacher. I was just responding to Roddy's comment about the "very bottom layer of the English teaching sector".

Congratulations then. There should be an award for those who are only temporarily coasting on their English skills.

Where do I pick it up?

[heifeng]

haha, you have to wait until the official ceremony, right now is just he nominations stage, don't worry, you are definitely nominated! =D

luckily no matter who wins L A O W A I just needs to be etched into the name plate and the venue will likely be starbucks hehe

[roddy]

You can't possibly think your argument makes sense.

Oh I think it's absurd, and a natural extension of yours - if the poor and uneducated are entitled to annoy those better off than them, I fail to see why I don't have the right to pass the favor up along the socio-economic chain until ultimately Jack Ma yells 'laowai' at Bill Gates or something. Manners and consideration for others may correlate to an extent with money and education, but lack of either does not entitle you to be irritating.

That said I think there's absolutely no value in complaining about it - you aren't going to change anything and your only going to ruin the day of those around you.

I should clarify my 'lowest level of the English teaching sector' comment - I'd include anyone without the qualifications, experience or inclination to do a decent job in that level. Anyone making even a marginal effort gets promoted and is no longer merely relying on their skin color.