how old is Simplified Chinese?

[babygodzilla]

so I was just watching Huo Yuan Jia (again...) and I noticed in the movie the newspaper is still using Traditional Chinese.

so, since its a true story, and assuming the details are historically accurate, that means that Simplified Chinese is probably less than 100 years old?

How old is it really, and how did it take over Traditional Chinese as the main character-set in Mainland China so quickly?

[Yuchi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_chinese#Origins_and_history

Cursive written text almost always includes character simplification. Simplified forms used in print have always existed (they date back to as early as the Qin Dynasty (221 - 206 BC), though early attempts at simplification actually resulted in more characters being added to the lexicon).

In part due to the shock and unease felt in the wake of the Cultural Revolution and Mao's death, the second-round of simplifications was poorly received, and in 1986 the authorities retracted the second round completely. Later in the same year, the authorities promulgated a final list of simplifications, which is identical to the 1964 list except for six changes

So the ones we use now were finalized only in the eighties I suppose.

I'm sure it didn't proliferate rapidly at first, but events like the Cultural Revolution undoubtedly had an effect.

[babygodzilla]

thanks for the quote. Wiki is block around here obviously...

but so, when did the official transition to simplified take place? looks like back in the early 1900s everything was still in Traditional. but these days, its the complete opposite. did it happen overnight or did it take a long time? if the official list was finalized in 86, only 20 years ago, then surely the transition happened only in the last 50 years? which is not a long time at all

[roddy]

It does seem remarkably quick if you consider the natural rate of change in a language - especially a written language. But if you consider that the Chinese government was in a position to (and I assume they did at least most of these things, though I couldn't tell you if or when these happened, or if they did them all at the same time - anyone know? I'd assume it all happened pretty much at the same time in 1956?)

• Decree that all newspapers should be in simplified
  
• Decree that all official documents should be in simplified
  
• Decree that all forms had to be filled in in simplified (that's an interesting one - did it ever happen? Was writing traditional characters counter-revolutionary?)
  
• Decree that all teaching materials should be in simplified and children should only learn simplified
  
• Heavily promote the use of the simplified script
  

Then it's easy to see how it could happen a lot quicker than you might expect.

How the actual transition was handled is an interesting question. Worth noting that even today the push for standardization of speech and writing is still going on.

[babygodzilla]

Even if the Chinese government did that (quite possibly dont you think?), I think that would still take quite a while. My native Taiwanese friends have somewhat of a hard time recognizing Simplified (not to mention they always make fun of Simplified...), and the shouhuoyuan at the BLCU merchandise store couldn't read all the characters on a BLCU T-shirt that had a paragraph in Traditional (I still don't know what the T-shirt says... hell not even the person selling it knows, LOL!)

My point is if the Chinese 50 years ago were used to using Traditional characters, and suddenly Herr Mao told them that tomorrow everything will be in Simplified, people would have to spend quite some time learning the 'other' set of characters... except apparently the Chinese have an inhuman ability to switch from one type of writing to another... You'd think it'll take like another century for everything to be changed. But no, seems like they did it in less than 40 years, which is short of miraculous to say the least. It's like everyone was brainwashed... but that wouldn't be surprising would it?

just kidding.

[Jose]

The first list of officially sanctioned simplified characters in the People's Republic of China was published in 1956. This first part of the reform (which affected characters like 个,会,体 or 头) was comparatively moderate, similar to the Japanese simplifications of 1946 or to the briefly used simplified characters introduced by the Kuomintang government in 1935. The second list was published in 1964, and this was much more radical than the previous one, introducing the simplification of radicals (as in 话,红,银,饭 or 问) and the forms based on the cursive style (like 车,东,贝,见). In 1977, a third batch of simplifed characters (called the second scheme of simplification because the 1958 and 1964 characters were jointly regarded as one scheme) was introduced. This was an even more radical overhaul of the system. The character 道, for example, had its phonetic part changed from 首 to 刀, and characters like 面 or 耳 lost their inner strokes. The 1977 characters never became widely used and they were officially abolished in 1986. The current system is the one promulgated in 1986, which is basically the same as the 1964 with a few traditional characters reinstated (like 像, which had previously been merged with 象 and 覆, previously merged with 复).

As for how such a profound reform was carried out successfully, it seems that simplified characters were the target of fierce criticism during the hundred flowers period of openness, but things changed during the Cultural Revolution because of the political mood in the country, when anything linked to old China was seen as reactionary and worth destroying. The radical zeal of those years (at a time when most people were illiterate) made it possible for the simplified system to take over completely, and the reformed characters became one of the visible symbols of Mao's new China. In this sense, my opinion is that simplified characters can be regarded as a legacy of the Cultural Revolution. Only such a period of political radicalisation could force the whole country to adopt a new system of characters. It is significant that the KMT government of Chiang Kai-shek had failed to impose simplified characters in 1935 (basically, printing houses continued to use 個 or 買 even though the Nanjing government had decreed that they had to use 个 and 买) and had to back down and abolish the reform one year later. The 1977 characters also failed perhaps because they were too dificult to understand (the fewer strokes, the more difficult it becomes to tell different characters apart), but more likely because the political mood in the country had changed. After Deng Xiaoping took power, people were interested in making money, not in revolutionary linguistic experiments.

Regarding your question about how people were able to cope with the changes, it is not very difficult to understand simplified characters if you know traditional ones, and many of the simplified characters were more or less known as non-standard forms. Add to that the politics of the Cultural Revolution and you can understand how people simply adapted to using the new standard script.

[babygodzilla]

but then if you think about it, the OFFICIAL age of the current list of characters is younger than me! probably younger than most of us, or just as old, which is very young! thats amazing

[shibo77]

I don't think it is a superhuman ability to switch to simplified. Before simplification, the common people wrote in traditional mixed with some other forms, which also includes some forms from the simplified set of characters. The major changes occur in places where writing was completely standardised, in newspapers, university thesis, and areas of academic learning. Most of the simplification weren't drastic Iron-fist changes, but rather changes that are already common among the common people's non-academic usage. When the simplification was first decreed, newspapers, university thesis, the education system and other areas of academic learning which had used the standard traditional set, gradually switched to using the simplified national standard. Since most newspapers, universities and the education system were under government control. It's really not very very difficult to switch. Most schools replace textbooks every year or so, changing the textbooks into the simplified standard the next school year isn't a difficult thing to do. Those that are in the higher grades and those that have already graduated will have to learn how to write the simplified version. For example, my grandparents were working adults from the simplification onwards, today most of what they write are simplified, but there are still some characters that they, as a habit, write in the traditional version. They write the traditional 高 and 舊, but most of the simplifications were easier, changing the radical 金 and 言... My parents grew up around the time of the simplification, but I think they were in 4th grade when the Cultural Revolution started. They write in the simplified script, but have no trouble reading traditional characters, mostly from the books they read when they were young, which were still in traditional characters. As for my generation, I write in simplified, have a better command of Hanyu Pinyin than my parents, and often have trouble reading traditional characters. The traditional characters that I can read are from pure guesswork, reading/watching materials from Hong Kong and Taiwan (mostly entertainment).

I think it is a combination of central authority, change in the education system, the printing press, Cultural Revolution, and time. Most of the older "Republic of China educated/working generation (pre-1940's)" people are either retired or deceased, very little written material influencing society. However you can often see them writing calligraphy to give a building/organisation "题名". Seomtimes you might notice that they combine simplified with traditional, or that they use traditional altogether; The "pre-Simplification educated/working generation (1950's-1960's)", probably still have a good command of traditional characters, but keep in mind that they have been working ever since in a simplified character environment, and are nearing retirement; The rest of the "post-Simplification generation" can be summed up as "Cultural Revolution and didn't go to school" or "Economic Reform everything's simplified" generations.

-Shibo