Online MBA Vs. Chinese MBA Vs. Laziness

[mandarinstudent]

Lately I have been milling over whether or not to go for an online MBA. I'm married to a Chinese person and we plan on staying in China. Right now I am teaching English, but I am thinking of what might happen in the future. Below is my reasoning on the subject. I am hoping that some of you that have been living in China for a while can throw in your 2 cents.

Advantages of pursuing an online MBA

1. Higher wages (most likely much higher if working outside the education sector) after completion

2. I will have the ability to do something other than teach English if that market bottoms out. This results in more possible opportunities and peace of mind. The ESL market might fizzle out or become more competitive and result in lower wages if China continues its economic rise.

3. If I choose to stay in the education field, with an MBA I can become a proper professor teaching finance (in China) rather than teaching English as a second language.

4. With my 4.0 undergraduate GPA, if I score well on the GMAT I can pretty much have my choice in schools. Perhaps there are scholarship opportunities for the more expensive schools.

Disadvantages of pursuing an MBA

1. Extremely hard life for 3 years

2. What I can afford might not be the most reputable. I can't shell out $100,000 for a Duke Online MBA. With an online MBA from a mediocre school I might not be able to do anything other than teach anyway. Leaving China to go to school is not an option because I don't want to be away from Emily, so online is the only way. Seeing as I make only around the equivalent of 600 dollars a month, if scholarships do not come through, a middle of the road school is my only choice.

3. In general, online programs are not as prestigious.

4. My Chinese study will be seriously diminished. If I "only" have an online MBA and my Chinese ability is not very high, how can I do something besides teaching in China anyway?

5. Once I begin, it will be hard to stop because I will have invested time and money.

6. If I do work outside of the education sector, there is a lot more stress. Is more money worth it?

7. I really don't find the field of finance all that interesting. I would rather study Chinese. I studied finance in college out of practicality. Who knew I would end up living in China?

8. I won't even able to even think about buying an apartment for at least 6-7 years if I spend all that money on an MBA.

Advantages of solely studying Chinese and passing on the online MBA

1. Little to no stress. I can do it at my own pace without any thought of curriculum.

2. More interesting.

3. After my Chinese proficiency improves enough, there is always the option of Chinese (cheaper) graduate school. If I were to graduate from a Chinese school, prospective employees would see not only the MBA, but they would also see that I can speak Chinese well enough to complete a Masters program in China. Two birds with one stone.

4. I am going to have to learn Chinese eventually. I might as well do it now before I get too old.

5. I don't love money. With the right experience one can make over 10,000 RMB a month for part time (20 hrs per week) work teaching English. I would be happy with this pay as it is sufficient to save for an apartment, retirement, and a child's education(living in China outside of cities like Beijing or Shanghai). If these market conditions continue, an MBA would not be necessary. I can just acquire experience teaching at a university and work myself up to that level of pay.

6. Assuming I will eventually reach a high level of Chinese proficiency, there has to be some value in having a degree in Finance as well as being able to speak Chinese on a business level.

7. I don't want to be one of those people living in China and making money in China, but can't speak the language very well. I hated those people in the US. If I am pursuing an MBA that would leave little to no time for studying Chinese.

Disadvantages of solely studying Chinese and passing on the online MBA

1. What happens if the "ESL gravy train" stops rolling? What if the Chinese begin to think that it just isn't worth it to pay foreign teachers 5-10 times more than the average person? What if in the next 10 years the RMB continues to appreciate, resulting in more foreigners coming to China and driving down wages? Can I get by doing another job with teaching experience, a Bachelors degree, a TESL certificate, and Chinese speaking ability only?

2. Let's say that I go for an MBA at a Chinese University in the future. Will that be worth anything to the multinational companies if I choose to leave the education field?

3. If I choose to stay in the education field I could be left behind as more people holding American/European Masters degrees enter the marketplace. Will work experience be enough to overcome this?

Questions to consider

1. Is an online American MBA really that much more valuable than an MBA from a Chinese University?

2. Realistically, what are the chances of the ESL field becoming flooded in the near future(10 years or so), resulting in a drop in wages and a necessity to work outside the education sector?

3. Is a high stress life outside teaching worth the extra money?

4. If I do go for the online MBA, am I ready to eat instant noodles for 3 years to be able to afford it?

[smalldog]

Hi, congratulations on your marriage! I'm in the same boat with a Chinese wife and difficult decisions about careers and where to live so here are a few comments based on my experiences.

Firstly, don't be so sure you will stay in China. Two years ago I was sure we would stay in China. I loved life in China, but the long-term prospects for a foreigner and a young Chinese graduate are not so great. We didn't want to live in the UK either and eventually chose Singapore as somewhere almost ideal for both of us.

Secondly, if you really want to make a go of it in China, you should spend your time learning Chinese and building up a network of guanxi. An MBA may be useful but is an enormous commitment in terms of time and money. If I were you I'd get settled in to a year of married life before making any big decisions.

Good luck!

[self-taught-mba]

Wow. you sure are doing a lot of pondering for Christmas Day. Please go in celebrate Christmas and enjoy yourself for a day.

I have in American MBA. I have taught MBAs here in China. So I have some idea about the differences between the two. (most MBA programs here are a joke with most participants pretty much admitting that they don't care and the purpose just to get the piece of paper. Very little learning actually taking place in many of them. Just a dog and pony show. There are exceptions IE Tsinghua University, where I was pretty impressed with the students)

I think you're missing one major variable. When asked, a majority of MBA graduates said one of the most beneficial things from their MBA was a new professional network. You really can't get this from an online NBA.

A couple other points:

Most high-paying MBA jobs in China are internal company transfers(meaning they worked in the US first for a few years at the company).

Soley, been able to speak Chinese is not necessarily enough to get a job either.

Too much to answer. If you what you can PM me and we can set up a time to discuss this over the phone and maybe spent a half-hour or so talking about it.

[simonlaing]

Hi ,

Yeah I can understand your condunrum. I was faced with the same issues last year. When I talked to people who worked at Multinationals in China they said they didn't look that highly on CHinese gained MBAs, but those from the west would be well recieved.

The US Masters programs are very expensive and I hate going into debt. I also have dual citizenship with Ireland and so applied and got into a couple of UK Business schools. The EU fees of 3000 Pounds was rejected and I ended up paying 8600 pounds for the year, similar to a US private Uni. The program is a Chinese and Business masters not just an MBA, but it is fairly good. The material is good even if the grading seems inflated. (a 50 % is pass, 40 % if you are an undergraduate.)

The key point is the Masters only takes 1 year and you can keep up your Chinese language which is key for me.

My friend Travis is doing an online Masters with the University of Phoenix while teaching 16 hours a week, but he seems to have no time at all . (He never comes to play poker anymore). Also it seems that he has to have group conference calls late at night which can interrupt socialization plans. Plus, I think even though he is living in China his Chinese language seems to have regressed as he spends his time studying in english and teaching english.

Another business friend and owner of a sizable translation firm did a MBA program at the Nanjing University. Also much of it was in english, he didn't hear most of it because of work demands kept him from going to most of the classes. I think they gave him the certificate with an Incomplete. He was doing it mostly to enlarge his guanxi anyway I think. So there's the rub, most people's success depends largely on relationship circle more than business skill.

I have an Algerian/German friend who did an MBA at Nanjing Univeristy, but his Chinese after one year was not up to the task. So he sat in lecturers and read other material. For each class he agreed with the Professor to write two papers and that was his MBA. He got the diploma but I am not sure how much it was worth since he didn't understand most of the lectures.

The Unversity I am going to is called Leeds and is in North of England so the living costs are much lower than London. I have another friend who basically got a full scholarship plus 500 Euros a month living allowance to go to Luxembourg University. (They wanted americans to make it more interesting or something) There was also a similar deal in Sweden, and both are taught completely in English.

Anyway, if you do decide to do the Chinese MBA tell us how it went.

If you have other questions email me. simoninchina2001@yahoo.com

have fun,

SImon:)

[gougou]

1. Is an online American MBA really that much more valuable than an MBA from a Chinese University?

I have been looking at MBA's in China as a long-term option. However, as opposed to you, I am considering the full-time programs, precisely for the reason self-taught-mba mentioned: networking. Not having your primary school friends doing any job from policeman to triad member is one of the major drawbacks of a foreigner in China; contacts won through an MBA could go a long way in alleviating this. If you're interested, there is a ranking in this week's Chinese Business Week (商业周刊). Unsurprisingly, CEIBS comes in first, with Tsinghua a distant second. Given the steep difference in pricing, you might want to consider Tsinghua's MBA. I take it from your post that you are not aware of the option of doing an MBA in English in China? See here for Tsinghua's offers.

2. Realistically, what are the chances of the ESL field becoming flooded in the near future(10 years or so), resulting in a drop in wages and a necessity to work outside the education sector?

Not an expert in this, but I think the possibility of it becoming impossible for you to earn money is rather low. It really depends on whether you prefer the easy life or are willing to work a bit more to achieve a higher standard of living. From your posts, I'd guess that you'd be fine with the first alternative.

3. Is a high stress life outside teaching worth the extra money?

Again, depends on your character. For me, it would be a clear yes, for you, the opposite might be true.

4. If I do go for the online MBA, am I ready to eat instant noodles for 3 years to be able to afford it?

Having an undergraduate degree in Finance with a 4.0 GPA, wouldn't you be able to find a job now already? Possibly, your employer might sponsor your MBA in the future. Just another alternative to think about!

[Crivens200]

Having worked worldwide in business for multi-national companies for more than 15 years before starting my own business, I would say that most MBA's are pretty worthless compared to valuable on the job experience (unless you come from a very very good school).

If I was employing someone and had two comparable candidates, one of whom had only a first degree and 4 years business experience and the other candidate had been doing an online MBA whilst teaching english in china for 4 years, I think it's pretty obvious who would get the job.

Working in an office sucks anyway - I think we're breeding generations of people who are going to wake up at 65 on retirement day like Warren Schmidt thinking "what the f*** . . . . "

[gougou]

Good point, that I personally agree with strongly. However, not everybody thinks this way - if you browse the classifieds, you will see plenty of ads stating MBA优先 or something to that effect. Also it seems that the big multinationals all see an MBA as an important asset - up to the point where they pay for it!

[Crivens200]

I think these jobs the multinationals are advertising would only be looking for Chinese candidates with MBA's (as a way to distinguish them from other chinese applicants) - especially if their MBA was done in English with an overseas insitituion - valuable experience and understandable that they would want a candidate with a knowledge of western culture from a Chinese background.

Foreigners would not really be considered for most of the jobs they are advertising, and certainly not a foreigner with no practical experience.

Most foreigners are employed in China with large multinationals because they have experience and something to offer . . . . the mere possession of an MBA for a foreigner would count for practically nothing when seeking a business job in China - experience is all.

Most foreigners in Shanghai speak not a word of Chinese also - they are employed for the experience and knowledge they can apply to their chinese entity.

The original poster should be looking to get a job in business quickly if that is what his long term ambition is. Any longer than one year teaching english is not justifiable on the CV if you subsequently hope to have a succesful career in business.

[mandarinstudent]

Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread. I suppose I should say that I am not interested in the MBA in order to secure some high paying/high stress job. I don't love money, but I am not a total hippie either. I only have 3 financial goals. I want to own my own apartment. I want to be able to retire and not starve. I want to pay for my child's education. That is all. Being a teacher in China with some experience will provide for these three goals as long as I don't live in Beijing or Shanghai. I would be perfectly happy working a nice 20 hour work week for 10,000+ a month, which is totally possible now.

The only reason I am thinking of the MBA is that the basis for such high pay (by Chinese standards) is based on the fact that there is a shortage of native English speakers in China. That just might change in the next 10 years. I am going to have to better myself in case of a flood of foreigners into China. I think that I will have to have a higher degree, either to become a "proper" professor in the education sector or to enable myself to at least posess the credentials to start on the bottom rung of the business world if the education sector at some point will not allow me to meet my 3 financial goals. The kink in the plan is that I don't want to leave my wife in China in order to better myself. I am only willing to sarifice so much happiness in order to "get ahead". Getting a Chinese person a visa to a western country, even if you are married to them, is like pulling teeth (if pulling teeth was a multi-year process). That is what made me think of these options. Is an online MBA just a worthless piece of paper? Is a Chinese MBA worth the effort? Would I just be better off just studying Chinese hardcore on my own? All of your input is very helpful in making my decision. This is what I am leaning towards (as if anyone cares..haha):

First, get a job in a University teaching English, work there for a while to gain experience, and at the same time study for the GMAT. I will take the GMAT in the next few months while the material is still somewhat fresh from my recent graduation. The results of the test are valid for 5 years. After a couple of years at a University, go for one of those positions that offer 10,000RMB+ a month for 20 hours per week. It is tough to get those jobs now, but after I gain experience it won't be so tough. While I am getting experience at the University, I can study Chinese. After landing the higher paying job, the expense of the MBA won't be so crushing, whether it be an online American MBA or a Chinese one. This way I will have opportunity to study Chinese and have the MBA, both within 5 years (and before the wage-lowering tidal wave of foreigners coming into China that I have imagined in my head). What do you all think of this plan?

[gougou]

Sounds feasible. Two things: not sure whether you need to take the GMAT right away. With a bit of studying, you should be able to get into it quite quickly. The advantage of this option is that you'll know what school you'll be applying to (unless you know now already??) - that way you save the 50 or so bucks that they ask for when they have to send results to schools after you took the test. (This is free when you mention the schools on the day you take the test)

What you also should take into account is that when not living in Beijing or Shanghai, your expenses will be lower, yet your income will as well, I believe. There should be other people around here that could elaborate?

[mandarinstudent]

What you also should take into account is that when not living in Beijing or Shanghai, your expenses will be lower, yet your income will as well, I believe. There should be other people around here that could elaborate?

Not necessarily true. Take Changchun for example. I know of a few colleges/universities here that pay people with the right degree/experience around the 10,000 RMB mark, but to buy a nice apartment in a good part of the city here costs 1/3 the price or even lower than a comprable apartment in Beijing. If you can find a situation like this, you are good to go. Also, there is always the option of earning the money in Beijng/Shanghai and taking the cash back to the smaller city to buy an apartment. After buying the apartment you can take your time to find one of these nice paying jobs in the smaller city.

[simonlaing]

Dear All, espicially Criven and MandarinStu.

First of all for a foreigner to get a low level job in a company can be difficult because MNEs and business companies won't hire foreigners for those low level jobs, and because very few westerners will take a monthly salary for 1000-2400 RMB which is the starting range for most chinese people.

This can cause a catch 22 where you need experience to be hired as a westernner manager. But to get experience you need to work for a chinese firm in a low position and then you a rejected from being hired to a low position because you are a western.

But Mandarin student, the 10,000 plus jobs you work very hard and are usually exhausted by the end of the day. Also speaking english all the time your Chinese language will suffer or at best stay the same unless you don't mind not having a life outside of work. (I have a friend whose that kind of job ann works 6 days a week 4 hours a day so he can schedule studying chinese time. ) That seems tough.

But also I don't think you need to teach long in a University setting to get the experience, most of the 10 k plus jobs are for profit places where they count student feedback more than student acheivement as your performance. So if you're diligent you can do well. Some schools like Web also don't even give you much teaching leeway room. (to bring in your own material or teach it in another style).

I found I could study full time and work part time to support a fairly spartan life, (Shared an apartment, didn't eat much western food, biked instead of taxied.) If you want learn chinese more than teaching experience I recomend this way. I worked nights 9 hours a week. ) A friend in Beijing did this working 6 hours a week two afternoons a week, (in beijing you can charge more). Another one got paid loads for doing Ielts examinations on the weekends (you sometimes have to travel though).

Anyway think about the consequences of taking a 20 hours (Actual 35 hour) teaching job a week, espicially on your chinese language and free time.

Good luck,

SImon:)