As a Chinese, I hate Zhang Yimou

[trien27]

Instead of "colors", I believe you meant the other meaning of the word "se", which has a surface meaning of "color", but has an extended meaning that's related to anything sexual or erotic. This is because you mentioned "All he knows is about breast and colors. "?

[magnusgren]

(Skipping the part about generelizations and the use of strong words)

I have seen a few movies of Zhang Yimou's, such as Red Sorghum, Hero, House of flying daggers. Red Sorghum was the more intriguing of them, with some story and some original scenes. Hero and House of Flying Daggers both had me crying at the end... it pained me to watch such perfectly silly movies. My first impulse when watching was to try to laugh...I thought maybe this is Chinese humour, even though I could not really understand what was so funny about it. After a while though, I realized this was actually meant to be taken seriously. 天！

Perhaps one could view these art-works as following the Dadaist tradition, comparing Zhang Yimou to Marcel Duchamp . House of Flying Daggers certainly would fit well into a modern art environment, complemented by "In Advance of the Broken Arm, or Shovel". What makes this comparison impossible is, I'm afraid, the lack in Zhang's work of the one quality that makes Duchamps Readymades great art, namely avant-gardism.

The most curious thing about these movies is that they actually seem to attract a rather large audience, that indeed seem to enjoy them. Defenders of Zhang Yimou usually refer to the beautiful scenery, but certainly there must take something more than mere scenery to make people sit spellbound for two hours or more. I wonder, what is this something? What do I not see? I personally think Hero and House of Flying Daggers are crap movies, but maybe someone could convince me that there is more to them than what meets the eye...

[redmini]

i love Hero.. i really appreciate breathtaking martial arts, even if the moves are exaggerated and unrealistic (think hong kong classics like Wong Fei Hong and if you dare so much as to say that is trash, i'll throttle you). there's a certain beauty and flair to kung fu, which can only be brought across by people who have an authentic background in it such as Jet Li and Donny Yen, rather than simply using only clever combinations of camera tricks, sounds and CGI effects. not to say Hero had none of those, but i personally thought it was all very elegantly put together with beautiful imagery. and the character of the emperor in that story was based (albeit very loosely) on historical fact. he really was that ruthless in his quest of making 'one china'.

Curse of the Golden Flower, on the other hand, was absolute rubbish. Jay Chow, a taiwanese pop star, cast in a Chinese historical movie???? wtf?!??? i totally could not take him seriously, and every time he appeared on screen, i half expected him to suddenly belt out one of his love songs. the chics in that movie were all about to pop out of their costumes, which was no doubt a strategy by the director to rein in the audiences of the world. fair enough it worked, and all viewers enjoyed a good spectacle of them, but in terms of the story, who would have dared in those days of ancient traditional china to have worn dresses that low with that amount of bosom showing?! i mean seriously, for the time period in which the movie was set in, at least have some sense to make the costumes realistic.

And House of Flying Daggers... oh god, i was positively laughing during that bamboo forest scene. the army of guards all flying in the sky while cutting down bamboo sticks from the trees and then refining them to a point of sharpness before throwing them at Zhang Ziyi and co, and then doing it all repeatedly??? the love story in the movie was incredibly melodramatic (gag me now), with fight scenes beyond exaggeration that surpassed even that of Hero. bleh. not a fan.

Raise the Red Lantern.. powerful story. liked it. hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

so, chichi is right to a certain extent but i still gotta admit it's fair effort on zhang yimou's part to be able to rise to the top of the game. at the end of the day, if anyone is able to direct a movie that gets international acclaim, i say, good on ya mate.

[skylee]

i mean seriously, for the time period in which the movie was set in, at least have some sense to make the costumes realistic.

I think the costumes designs are not totally unfounded.

There are figurines and paintings from the Tang Dynasty which show how female were dressed back then. I remember one very good exhibition on treasures from the Tang and Han Dynasties I went to at Miho Museum in Japan and here are some pictures from the museum's website (note the neckline) -

[HashiriKata]

It's a good find, skylee!

BTW, I just ordered "The Road Home" on the net and am still waiting for delivery. This film is also by Zhang Yimou but no one seems to have mentioned it in this thread. With this omission, should I assume that it's "a good one" ?

[gougou]

The Road Home is quite cheesy (which does not make it bad in my book, in fact I've seen it twice already and would not mind a third time). It gets cheesy up to the point where it seems like a hommage to Titanic (look out for the background music and the posters on the wall in one of the buildings).

In terms of Zhang Yimou movies, it is comparable to Happy Times - and, judging by the plot, to Not One Less, which I haven't seen yet.

[wushijiao]

Some say the “Road Home” is a bit of a “sell out” movie. It bridges the gap from when Zhang made gritty, edgy, and story-driven movies that were often politically subversive to the era in which he made big blockbuster fantasy movies. In order for a blockbuster to succeed in China, you need the approval and support of the Party. They control the papers, TV, the radio, and, of course, what goes into the theaters, or doesn’t. Some critics say that Zhang more or less sold out in order to get rich. Of course, that’s not really a fair thing to say either. Directors should have the right to experiment with styles and genres. Also, the China of this decade is way less authoritarian than in the past, so the pressing need to make or watch overtly political movies has decreased.

Anyway, the people who criticize Zhang mention that the political problems in “the Road Home” aren’t overtly shown (unlike, say, “To Live”), but instead, the political problems are hinted at.

On the other hand, I agree with gougou that the plot is somewhat cheesy, but I also agree that it is not a bad movie.

I just suddenly had an idea about the connections between “Saving Private Ryan” and “the Road Home” (I once saw a conversation with Zhang and Spielberg on TV, and they are mutual admirers, so the possibility that Zhang might have paid homage to/emulated one of Spielberg’s movies isn’t entirely impossible). I think one of the essential themes of “Saving Private Ryan” is the idea of generation differences. When the old and frail Private Ryan falls down at the graveyard crying, remembering the war and the sacrifices made by his friends, his family, Baby Boomers and Gen Xers, have no real ability to comprehend what he is going through. In “the Road Home”, similarly, the son (if I remember right) cares for his mom, but can’t quite relate to her reaction to her husbands death. In some ways, the movie portrays the beauty of simple love in brilliant colors while a hundred flowers were blooming, literally and figuratively. Although the content of the two movies couldn’t be more different, the contrast between different generations and different eras is both an interesting theme.

[HashiriKata]

I've watched “The Road Home” now. The story may be a bit "easy cheesy" but the (simple!) photography is outstanding. And to me, Zhang Ziyi seems to be most beautiful in this film than anywhere else that I've seen (I sometimes felt jealous of the teacher in there, not only because of Zhang Ziyi's beauty but also because of the way the teacher won her over: without a single drop of sweat. She felt in love with him simply because he was from "the city", and even before seeing him or knowing anything about him. Truly amazing!!! ).

Another thing I appreciate in this film is that it's not another struggle between the baddie and and goodie that we're so used to seeing in movies these days. I'm sure I'll watch it again when I've got time.

[gougou]

Zhang Ziyi seems to be most beautiful in this film than anywhere else that I've seen

Completely agree!

I sometimes felt jealous of the teacher in there, not only because of Zhang Ziyi's beauty but also because of the way the teacher won her over: without a single drop of sweat. She felt in love with him simply because he was from "the city", and even before seeing him or knowing anything about him.

Completely disagree. I don't know what your experiences are in this respect, but a girl that likes me only because of where I come from is something I am trying to avoid at all costs.

[studentyoung]

I don't know what your experiences are in this respect,

I sometimes felt jealous of the teacher in there, not only because of Zhang Ziyi's beauty but also because of the way the teacher won her over: without a single drop of sweat.

I think HashiriKata just means that he wishes he could win a beauty like Zhang Ziyi without a sing drop of sweat. Hehe.

Thanks!

[HashiriKata]

a girl that likes me only because of where I come from is something I am trying to avoid at all costs.

But don't you think with someone as beautiful as Zhang Ziyi in this particular film, it's possible that we may go stupid?

PS: If I remember correctly, there is a saying in Chinese which expresses a similar sentiment:

宁不知愚蠢，

佳人难再 得！

[woliveri]

Actually, I think you should thank Zhang Yimou for bringing Chinese films to foreign audiances and main stream markets. Most like to come to the theater to take a break and relax and to see something nice. I agree that some of his films were so-so at best. I didn't care for bascially anything after Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.. so far.. Didn't care for Hero, House of Flying Daggers, etc as stories but the sceanery was nice. I've seen other films from China which were more realistic towards the daily Chinese life but you're not going to the the foreign mainstream with those films. I think Zhang Yimou has done a good job to get China noticed with good quality films. Before that, all I had seen were the cheezy Shaw bros KF films, and Jet Li's Once upon a time in China.

I used to work at Disney World in Orlando Fl and would often go to the China pavillion in Epcot center. There's a 360 degree film in there that shows beautiful pictures of China. Most Chinese that I went with didn't like the film because they said it made the country look poor and without technology skills. But, do you think the guests in Epcot would want to see a film on Emerging Chemical processes in China? Not hardly. I would bet that that 360 degree film brought in a lot of tourist dollars to China. Perhaps ChiChi you can give some suggestion of what you'd like to seen in a film, or recommend one you think is better than Zhang Yimou's.

Just my 2 cents

[imron]

I didn't care for bascially anything after Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon

Which was actually a film by Ang Li anyway

[woliveri]

whoops.... (sh) ha ha... Thanks Imron.

[wushijiao]

I used to work at Disney World in Orlando Fl and would often go to the China pavillion in Epcot center. There's a 360 degree film in there that shows beautiful pictures of China. Most Chinese that I went with didn't like the film because they said it made the country look poor and without technology skills. But, do you think the guests in Epcot would want to see a film on Emerging Chemical processes in China? Not hardly

Well said. I don't want CCTV-9 to make feature length movies. That also sums up my dislike of the “I hate Zhang Yimou” phenomenon. Not liking a director because he makes bad movies is one thing, but Zhang seems to get hit on all sides by all sorts of irrational lines of critique.

I wouldn’t want to defend some of his newer ones, but I often get the impression, living in Shanghai, that some people here just don’t understand his films, to put it bluntly, and in any case, the films are perhaps too culturally different for them to get anyway. I suppose Zhang should make more films about melodramatic campus love, with lots of skyscrapers, glittery things, and imitated American R&B music. He could throw in the machine that makes float-y bubbles for good measure.

It’s a bit similar in the US. Woody Allen’s films do better in France than they do in the US, usually. To some degree, the Mid-West doesn’t give a damn about New York (until it became an American city on 9/11). Similarly, many people in Shanghai (certainly not all) are disinterested in small town life in the Shanxi, or some place like that. Because of China’s geographic and cultural diversity, it’s almost impossible to make a film that could accurately “represent” "Chinese" life to “foreigners”, even if that were the main goal of making movies, which it shouldn't be.

[david1978]

I'm not bothered by Zhang Yi Mou or Chen Kai Ge, or whether their recent movies are good or bad.

What bothers me about this thread is that people can't see the problem with making statements like: "all Chinese people like/dislike/hate/think XYZ".

There's 1.3 billion in China. I'll bet quite a significant portion of the population haven't pondered the question of whether Zhang Yi Mou is a sell out, so it couldn't be said that such people hate him. Others might think that the international success of Chinese directors is good for China. Some Chinese people don't think the movies are all bad.

A diversity of people usually translates to a diversity of opinions. If you personally hate a director, movie, whatever, admit that it's your own opinion. You might even represent it as the views of your circle of friends. But as soon as you start pretending that you're an ambassador for your entire nation, you start sounding like a dimwit.

The only voice of reason in this absurd thread.

PS. Considering China's vast urban and rural territories, variety of unintelligible dialects, multiple ethnicities, and economic disparity, I'd love to know what single Chinese film can accurately capture the entire Chinese experience in its totality! There is no such thing as an accurate depiction of the Chinese experience when that experience is totally different from region to region.