How did you learn pinyin?

[myann23]

This could easily belong in Listening and Speaking, so feel free to put it there.

Three simple questions -

1.) What materials/books/tapes/websites did you use to learn pinyin?

2.) How long did it take you to master the pronounciations?

3.) What was the hardest part of learning it?

I've just started to learn Mandarin and starting with the very bottom with learning pinyin. Looking to get some insights from other people's experiences.

[gougou]

1.) What materials/books/tapes/websites did you use to learn pinyin?

A native speaker. She ran me through all the syllables in a few hours, and, with a bit of repetition in the following days, it stuck.

2.) How long did it take you to master the pronounciations?

To master them - three years and counting. To get them to a level where Chinese people can understand me - one to two days (disregarding tones).

3.) What was the hardest part of learning it?

Some unfamiliar sounds, like the 'i' in syllables such as shi (a syllable without vowel?!?). And if you count the tones as a feature of pinyin, then, yes, the tones.

I was quite taken aback when a Chinese asked me whether I learn pinyin, too, or just characters. Not only would it be impossible for me to know the pronunciation of characters without pinyin (no bopomofo for me...), but coming from a Western language, pinyin is also rather self-explaining.

[kdavid]

Depends on where and how you're studying / beginning.

Route #1: (if you're studying in China / at a school with native speakers)

Find a pinyin chart, have your teacher read to you while looking at the pinyin and repeat, repeat, repeat. Some of the sounds, at least in the beginning, will be quite tough. Having a coach of sorts will help a lot, as well as make your pronunciation much clearer.

Route #2: (if you're studying independently)

Find some good pronunciation software and drill, drill, drill.

I HIGHLY recommend, if not insist, that you do, however, find a native Mandarin speaker. When I began studying I often found (and still do) that I think I'm pronuncing something perfectly, when in fact it's all wrong. Having someone to help you in the beginning is crucial, as you don't want to learn the wrong way and then, much later down the road, have to relearn how to speak all over again.

As far as how long to "master" pronunciation, I don't know. Some argue adults will never sound "exactly" like a native-speaker (or so I've read here). But, I'd say that, IF you're studying and speaking EVERYDAY, you'll have the tones and pronunciation down pretty well within 2-3 months. I'm just beginning my fifth month of study and am finding that I can, about 99% of the time, peg the pinyin perfectly (spelling and tone) when listening / during conversation.

Good luck to you! It's loads of fun.

[kudra]

1. this book

2. A week for 95%, then another year for odds and ends. Initially I was working so hard on tones with tapes, that except for the last 5%, I learned consonants and vowels "without trying" if you see what I mean.

3. x, which I had wrong because I saw it described, I think in the reference above, as the ch in the German ich, which messed me up. Otherwise, along with native speakers in class, that reference was fine.

By the way, I just listened to the 1st tape for "Pronunciation and Romanization" at http://fsi-language-courses.com/Chinese.aspx and I thought it was excellent. If the rest of the intro on pinyin is like that, you can't go much wrong with that audio and text.

[geraldc]

I learnt during class, and we had tests everyday. I'm not one of those people who does well under self study, I need the stick rather than carrot approach.

Hardest was u vs v (u with umlaut). Only time I use pinyin now is looking up words I don't know by sound, or for typing, so it's reinforced with use.

[Lugubert]

1.) What materials/books/tapes/websites did you use to learn pinyin?

Routledge Colloquial Chinese, and my (Swedish) university teacher.

2.) How long did it take you to master the pronounciations?

Not too many minutes. Swedish has most of the "difficult" sounds, like a set of retroflexes and the ü. Additionally, way before beginning Chinese, I had had a good look at the system through general phonetics.

3.) What was the hardest part of learning it?

q took a few minutes extra to get automated, because of the ingenious but not immediately obvious use. x is (at least to me) sufficiently close to its IPA use for German to create a problem. Learning the different realizations of /i/ and /e/, one or two days. Understanding that some Chinese make a big difference between the a's in an and ang, still not sure who cares (case: friend from Hangzhou) and who don't (case: Wenlin and some course tapes).

[DrZero]

The u with an umlaut was a pain to learn, and the j, q, x sounds were kind of tough to get just right. I found that Chinese people couldn't really teach me those sounds. However, when an American who had learned Mandarin explained them to me, I learned them right away.

Those sounds are hard not because of pinyin, but because they are just hard sounds for English-speakers to learn.

There are some other features of pinyin itself that are a little tricky or counterintuitive, but nothing that can't be overcome in an afternoon, I'd say.

[Hero Doug]

I also was luckly enough to know a native speaker. I was living in Canada and was working at a Chinese restaurant so I asked the owner if she'd take the time to record the pronunciation of all the pheonitic sounds I had on my flashcards. She did and I took the tape and listened, and repeated, a fair amount.

I lost that tape, and when I arrived in China, I did the same thing again asking a co-worker. I listened and repeated a fair amount, but both times not as much as I should have.

The benifit of this is that you don't need to bother the person so much, and it's there when you need it. The downside is there's no one to spot your mistakes.

But, like one book I learnt from said, "Near enough is good enough". Although, I like to be quite near myself, but striving for absolute perfection is only going to slow down my progress. So don't stress yourself if you're not saying it perfectly, it takes time.

[Lugubert]

The question is of course, what kind of native speaker. I made a serious effort to establish a relationship with a girl from Hangcou. That was the way I heard her... So, of course, from her, Zhongguo emerged as Conggou (Zongguo?). Moreover, fascinating but causing no practical problem, there was this an/ang thing. The a in her an was way more closed than that in ang. The n vs. ng distinction was minimal, if even present. I couldn't even discuss it with her, because to her, it was all a case of initials and finals. an is different from ang. To isolate the vowel was unthinkable to her. And she held an engineering degree.