Studying at Heilongjiang University

[marijn]

Dear all,

This is my very first threat on this forum. First a short intro: I am Dutchie and currently reside in Wuxi where I teach English at an uni. My reason for being in China is to study Chinese, as I need the language for better PhD applications in the UK.

The last few weeks I have been investigating my chances of studying a few months Chinese (i.e. for a period of 3- 4 months), starting preferably in Feb and ending in May. I came to the conclusion that Harbin is probably the best choice for me. Why?

- Not so many foreigners

- Cheaper than Beijing

- Good dialect (as everybody keeps on saying)

I am especially interested in written Chinese, as I might have to read some articles during my PhD. Thus, I asked my university here in Wuxi to help me. They came up with idea of studying at Heilongjiang University. Now, I have been reading a couple of recent threats on this forum about both Harbin and the university. However, I have some last questions.

1) Is Heilongjiang University a good choice? I have not signed anything yet and want to be sure.

2) Apparently the academic year at Heilongjiang University starts in March. I would like to enter the second level (the levels range from 1 to 10, I think) and thus would be interested in studying Chinese already earlier than that. Does anybody have any tips on where to study in Feb?

3) I read some horror stories about people, who stayed in private (i.e. off- campus) accommodations. My question is: is it really better to stay on campus? Moreover, how much should I be paying for a small single room, with kitchen and with/ without shared kitchen (including heating and water)?

4) How much would 3 months of studying cost in Harbin, in terms of living expenses (including Internet and excluding accommodation and tuition)? I can live sober, as I don’t care to go out every weekend.

5) Is there anybody who currently lives in Harbin and could maybe show me around?

6) It is said that Harbin is very cold, though it has a very dry cold. I have spent time in Moscow and St. Pete before in December (- 15 Celcius) is Harbin comparable in Feb/ March?

7) More tips or recommendations are very welcome!

Cheers everybody!

M.

[marijn]

I guess that there are not that many people in Harbin at the moment.... well, I am still not really sure yet what I’ll do... I also started considering Jilin Normal University.

However, the problem with both unis is that the semester starts in March and my contract in Wuxi finishes at the end of January.

Who can tell me what the best place to study is in February? Preferably in The North, but rather not in Beijing. I would be interested in a college name (private or public) rather than a geographical location.

Cheerio and again many many thanks for sharing your thoughts!

M.

[davemc]

Here is a good informative link - http://www.hyccchina.com/english/hycc/index13.htm

There are a couple posts in this forum from people who have used Adam's services and highly recommend it.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/10788-araq-network

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/10075-will-a-total-beginner-be-ok-in-a-lang-program-at-a-chinese-university

[marijn]

Hi “davemc” and thanks for your comment!

I am aware of that company, but don’t think I can (want to) afford 3,000 RMB just to get easy on myself. Besides as I said earlier my uni in Wuxi helps me with my application for a university to study.

I am now primarily looking for a place to study in Feb. I have come across Ben's language school, which is unfortunately in Nangbo. I would prefer to be in the North, because of the ice sculptures (in Feb) and the local accent. Any recommendation on this or other comments, which could be helpful to me?

Cheerio!

M.

[flameproof]

Who can tell me what the best place to study is in February?

Middle of February is Spring Festival (aka Chinese New Year). Many place close well before and re-open well after SF because students will move back slowly. That's probably why they all start in March. I presume normal operation will be close for at least 2 weeks in Feb.

[marijn]

Thanks

I know that Feb is Spring Festival... and I know that its difficult to find something in this month, but I reckon it cant be impossible. Maybe I should have opened a new blog for this post, but I dont know whether the moderator will like it, thus here follows my question:

Does anybody know of any private language institute in Harbin or Changchun, which hos open throughout February and offers a month of intensive Chinese, preferably at "Basic" level?

If not, does anybody know of anybody in Harbin or Changchun that tutors for a reasonable price in the Feb month?

Cheers once more

M.

[Xander]

Some people on this forum are considering going to Harbin to study, and since I have been there this is what I experienced.

I arrived in Beijing on August the 8, and was greeted by Adam, the guy who runs the fabulous company that helps foreigners to establish themselves in China, for a rather inexpensive fee. Adam had booked me a train ticket to Harbin, so I arrived in Harbin the next morning. At the train station I was greeted by Mr Wang, who took me to Harbin Institute of Technology. Mr Wang is the Managing Director of the ARAQ Network/www.hyccchina.com Adam is the President. Mr Wang helped me with accommodating myself in the dorms, and showed me where everything on the campus was.

I had previously studied one semester at BLCU, and found that my progress had been rather slow. Therefore going to Harbin my plan was to interact as much as possible with Chinese, and as little as possible with foreigners. Harbin is a good place to do that, because it takes you really some effort to get to know other people than Russians and Koreans.

My plan had been to find an apartment within a week of arriving in Harbin, and finding two Chinese students to live with me. As already mentioned my Chinese is by far not good enough to be able to find apartments, and handle all the procedures, so I asked Mr Wang to help me. Mr Wang is the greatest guy ever, extremely helpful, always smiling and makes an effort to meet your wishes. After looking at approximately ten apartments I settled for one close to Uni, with two bedrooms, living room and a kitchen (we never cooked). Price 1500, if I had rented it for a year the price would have been 1100.

Next task finding roommates. Mr Wang told me that the university could do that as well, and I agreed to that. But I also wanted to do my own research, and went looking for those two guys that would be living in the same flat as me for the next five month. I talked to two Hit students who where eating melon, and asked them if they could give me tutor classes, they agreed. Uni didn’t start for another two weeks, so we had plenty of time to get to now each other. On my birthday the 30th of August, my tutors, a couple of their friends and me went out to celebrate with cake, food and some beers. We all got really drunk. Altogether we were six people, and I asked the guy that was the least drunk, and took great care of his friend to be my roommate. The guy was one of my tutors. I also asked him to choose one friend, with whom he wanted to share the second bed room with. The university also found two roommates, but I told them I already had found two good guys. Those two Chinese guys didn’t pay any rent, electricity, gas… because I figured to them paying 100 RMB a month is quite a lot, and I was fearing they might stay in the dorms if I charged them. HIT is a really good university, especially the science, engineering and chemistry studies are really difficult to get in, and people I talked to said that those students are all 典型的好孩子. So no problems living together with Chinese, but at times I was glad I had my own room. We cleaned the apartment every week, and had no problems living together. My roommates were extremely busy, working 12 hours or more every day, also weekends, so we didn’t spend that much time together. Some students, especially those at really good unis while doing their Bachelor degree can be very busy, just keep that in mind if you want to do the same thing I did.

Now I was settled and life was rather normal. Studying, sleeping and eating for the first two to three month, but then I got bored and wanted to a little bit more than just that. I found some Americans to go out with, and went to the gym twice a week. I still kept studying, but not as intense as before, when I almost worked as hard as my roommates.

Uni

I started at HIT, but the classes there are pretty large. Around 15 people don’t know about Heilongjiang University. After two weeks I found myself two tutors. Mr Wang helped me with my 语法老师, who is a teacher at the local private school mainly catering Korean students. The other tutor I found myself through meeting her son while playing basketball. I had tutor classes every day, normally four hours, sometimes six. Tutor classes are effective, but expensive if you want to have proper teachers. I think for kouyu, a student is good enough, no need to hire a proper teacher. But for 语法, the 60RMB I paid my tutor an hour seems worthwhile.

Some people on this forum want to do short term, small classes or study during Chinese uni holidays in Harbin. My advice is to go to the Korean school, I think it is pretty good, at least the 口语 classes are small (three to four people). Adam had studied there as well for one semester, transferring from Heilongjiang university. I don’t know the address, but Adam or Mr Wang surely do, ask them.

Dialect

Yes, the dialect is good, no problem there. But more important is what kind of dialect you’re friends, or the people you hang out with speak.

People and friends

There are not too many foreigners in Harbin, but if you want to hang out with only foreigners that’s possibly as well. Its good to do that once in a while, because sometimes all the Chinese talking can get a little bit too much. I think I didn’t speak to any foreigners for two or more month, but after a while I felt the urge to do that.

Food

There are all kind of Chinese style restaurants close to the HIT uni, and they are cheap. But if you go all by yourself you wont be able to finish all the food they serve you. The portions are getting bigger the farther north you get. The 食堂 at Hit is not bad, but I got enough/sick of eating there after three month, and needed a break for one month to again enjoy the food they serve there.

Living expenses

Harbin is cheaper than Beijing when it comes to cabs, going out and renting apartments. Eating out is just a little bit cheaper. Well, that is somewhat obvious, but regarding these three things, Harbin is a lot cheaper than Beijing.

Whether and pollution

The whether in Harbin is colder than Beijing, but I never liked the hot Beijing summers. If you can cope with -15 in December, and a little bit colder in January and February you will enjoy the well tempered climate of Harbin. Compared to Beijing, the pollution in Harbin is non-existent.

That’s it, hope it helps. If you have any questions post them here, and I will answer them, as good as I can.

[Martijn]

Hey Marijn,

Are you still in Wuxi? It just so happens that I am in Harbin right now and I am looking for my next teaching position (preferably uni or 'older' students). It doesn't really matter where, as long as it's a big or bigger city. Do you know if your place at the uni where you where teaching is filled yet? If not, maybe you could ask them or forward me their details.

If you do decide to come to Harbin and I'm still here, I can show you around a bit. Otherwise, go to SPR Coffee (near the end of ZhongYangDaJie on the right). They've got good coffee there and the owner, Kathy, speaks excellent English and can help you around a bit.

Cheers from another Dutchie

Martijn.

martijn.denheijer@gmail.com

[dbanderson01]

Hello everyone,

Just seeing if anyone is currently studying at Hei Long Jiang Da Xue and can offer their comments about the school. Specifically class size, what books they use, teacher quality, dorm room accomodations, students attitude towards westerns. etc.

I am currently studying Chinese in BeiJing for the past 4 months, and have been accepted into Hei Da's spring program. I really really enjoy BeiJing, but feeling a year in Harbin will greatly improve my Chinese level and offer a better Chinese language environment with less English speakers.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[laowang]

I think you must be in the Spring Semester 2008 course. so the average students in the classes are 15-22 according to their plan, while personally I guess the average students are not that many should be 15.

Heida is famous for its languages teaching including Chinese.

I am not students from Heida so don't much about the teachers.

There are 705 foreign students among them 5 are from USA, 29 from Japan, 340 from Korea, 310 from Russia and 21 from other countries.

In the coming 08 spring semester, they have a beginners a Junior Course and a Middle-level as well as an advance level class.

Most Chinese students are kind to foreign students, except the climate. Don't know if you can bear the cold in Jan temp is 20 below 0.

In a non-English environment, hope you can improve your Chinese as you desire.

[anforever]

Hello everyone,

Didn't see much info for Hei Long Jiang University on here. I am now stuck in a situation that choosing either going to Harbin or Beijing. My main point is to learn Chinese as much and quick as possible, I know it's not just to choose a school, my own effort will be same important, but I think to pick a good school is the first step to get start.

I will appreciate tons if anyone can give me some good advance.

Thank you all.

[laowang]

I think Heilongjang University is a better choice, as there is few westerners in this university and you are forced to speak Chinese with your Russian or Korean or Japanese classmates. Furthermore westerners are popular in this school. You can find a Chinese friend to practise your Chinese instead of in Beijing with your native friends living in Beijing in your western culture background and ways.

I work with www.hyccchina.com. If you need more specific infos about Heida, please ask me here.

Good luck.

[kdavid]

Hi marijn,

I'm an American living in Harbin. I've been here for awhile and planning on staying for much longer.

It looks like most of your questions have been answered in one form or another. However, I'll reiterate a few points here, and hopefully add one or two things.

You're right about Harbin and foreigners--they are very far and few between. This is one of the reasons I decided to move to Harbin. It is very, very rare to run into someone on the street that can speak English, so you're forced to speak Chinese to survive. In the off chance that you do run into a Chinese that wants to speak English with you, just tell them you're from Europe and can't speak English. Works every time.

Harbin is also much cheaper than Beijing. Excluding accommodation, you'd be hard pressed to spend 20 - 30 kuai a day eating unless you're a frequenter of KFC, Mikky D's and other western places.

Harbiners' accent is amongst the most standard. You will, of course, pick up some 东北话, but that's part of the fun. Coming here to learn is a great investment in time, money and effort if you're serious about your Mandarin studies.

Your questions:

1) All of the foreigners I know go to HIT to study. I've never heard of anyone going to HeiDa. Are you going for a degree or just classes? If you're seeking the former I strongly recommend HIT as they are one of the top universities in the country.

2) The best investment of your time and money is going to be through a private tutor. Unless you absolutely need to have the structures of a formal institution, there's no reason not to hire a student to give you private classes. You can find a private tutor (local university student) for 15 - 20 kuai an hour. I strongly recommend you do this in February while waiting for the term to begin.

3) Sorry, I can't offer any advice on private vs. on-campus accommodation.

4) How much you spend largely depends on how you live: like a local or like a westerner. I've known foreigners here in Harbin who blew their whole paycheck (around 6000 kuai) in three weeks. This can be done very easily be eating lots of western food, drinking lots of beer and taking taxis everywhere.

On the other hand, living like a local (eating local food, taking the bus, shopping at places catering to locals and NOT westerners) will save you tons of money and give you a more authentic experience while you're here. This doesn't mean that you're living 艰苦朴素, it's actually quite the opposite. I live quite well on (excluding major purchases) around 1500 RMB a month.

5) I'd love to show you around once you arrive.

6) This winter is much warmer than last. I'm not sure what it will be like in Feb/March, but below freezing is pretty much guaranteed, at least for February. As long as you wear the called-for attire, this isn't a problem.

Hope this helps!

[venture160]

KDavid:

I spent 1 year living in Harbin from 2005-2006 and haven't been back since. My guess is not much has changed and Ronny is still running Hamama's. Do you think there has been an increase in foreigners up in Harbin (besides the summer months)?

But in sum, I too recommend going to harbin to learn Chinese, its your best bet!

[kdavid]

I'm sure this is a sin in some expat-Harbin Bible, but in the whole time I've been here I've yet to go to Hamama's. I'm probably the only foreigner here that hasn't gone at least once.

Also, I'm not a real good judge on whether or not the foreigner population is picking up because I don't get out much. I'd have to say that any increase is not substantial. I still hardly see white people outside of school, and when I do they're always Russian.

[venture160]

being at HIT, have you had any interaction with the CET kids? What is your general impression of the program as someone enrolled in the normal classes.

[kdavid]

I see where I might have confused you in my reply. By "outside of school" I meant the English school where I work, not where I study Chinese.

In addition to having never gone to Hamama's, I've also never attended formal classes. I've been completely "self study" since I arrived, and from the feedback I've received from those who have attended / are attending HIT, I think I made the right move.

The feedback on both HIT and CET is mixed. I have two friends attending HIT now, one doing the degree track and one just taking language classes. They've both agreed that the degree track isn't that great. Regarding CET, I yet to meet in person someone enrolled in their program, but I've only heard good things.

[kdavid]

I see where I might have confused you in my reply. By "outside of school" I meant the English school where I work, not where I study Chinese.

In addition to having never gone to Hamama's, I've also never attended formal classes. I've been completely "self study" since I arrived, and from the feedback I've received from those who have attended / are attending HIT, I think I made the right move.

The feedback on both HIT and CET is mixed. I have two friends attending HIT now, one doing the degree track and one just taking language classes. They've both agreed that the degree track isn't that great. Regarding CET, I yet to meet in person someone enrolled in their program, but I've only heard good things.

[yfx416]

Until now i have found it that there are so many foreigners to study Chinese in Harbin. I know it is not easy to live in China for foreigners. Good luck!

[venture160]

This would piss off the CET staff back in D.C, but as the Chinese professors who staff the CET program are not paid much, I bet with a little wrangling you could get a few of them to do private tutoring for you. They are very senior and experienced in teaching westerners. Your best bet would be to talk to Guo Laoshi who is the CET liaison for HIT, you could approach him as a middleman to introduce you to the various teachers and mention that you could give him a small fee.

This would be CET but without the price tag. Of course, you still have to figure out a Visa.