Convert RMB to US dollars

[Lindsay]

Currently, I have a bank account in china that has RMB and after my spending spree in Beijing, I want to convert some of the RMB to US dollars (why? so I can continue the spending spree over here of course).

BUT.. since the RMB is considered a non-convertible form of currency, its tough to get it out of the country. So, what is the best way to exchange rmb to the dollar? I would hate to succumb to the blackmarket so all legal suggestions are appreciated!

[flameproof]

If you travel via Hong Kong you can exchange RMB on almost any street corner. The banks also have probably some ways to exchange, it will probably very fast (just a few days or weeks) end very easy (only 20 forms to fill).

You can consider changing privately too. It's the easier option.

On the other hand, keeping RMB is no risk, it will only get stronger. I actually stock up my accounts in China.

[Nibble]

I changed my RMB at LA airport without any trouble.

[roddy]

To do it in China, legally, you need to show that either this money was originally foreign currency which you converted to RMB, or that you earned it as part of legal employment, and you've paid taxes. Either way usually requires an afternoon at the bank.

Outside of China - Hong Kong is very easy. Banks (last time I did this) will do it immediately, as will money changers everywhere. Elsewhere it can be done, but you might have trouble finding a place which wants RMB, and rates are probably going to be lower.

Although as it's referred to as a non-convertible currency, that just means that the government restricts what you can do with it legally within China. Once you're over the border you can do what you want with it - assuming you can find someone who wants to buy what you are selling.

There are, however, limits on how much currency you can take out of the country. Don't think they ever actually check though.

[Lindsay]

In all of your traveling experiences, which Fx counter offered the most attractive rates? I know banks, airports, hotels, etc all do it but some charge heavy commission fees and unattractive conversion rates.

[flameproof]

I think the USD>RMB rates are very similar inside China. RMB>USD, as said, can be a tough job inside China.

In HK it's no problem at all. But be aware that you are legally only allowed to bring a crtain amount of RMB out of the Country (was it rmb 6000 or 20000? I forgot)

Outside China (other then Hong Kong) rates are usually very very poor.

[liuzhou]

But be aware that you are legally only allowed to bring a crtain amount of RMB out of the Country (was it rmb 6000 or 20000? I forgot)

It's 20,000

(Not that anyone ever checks.)

[Lindsay]

i am looking to convert an amount just a little more than that.. like maybe 5-8 times the limit. (sh)

does anyone use citibank both in the states and in china? can i just waltz over to the beijing branches and ask for them to exchange the rmb to dollars and do a wire transfer into my account? i just don't understand why china keeps its currency under such closed conditions. maybe there are economic implications behind their policies but it is a hassle to get around the rules. it makes me feel like a money launderer or something.

[johnd]

Do you have a family member with a bank account and Chinese ID? If so, I know that they can waltz into their bank and do it. But there is a limit, and I'm not sure what that is (possibly also 20,000).

[roddy]

maybe there are economic implications behind their policies but it is a hassle to get around the rules. it makes me feel like a money launderer or something.

Not at all, just an illegal currency trader.

It sounds like you are not going to be able to do this legally / easily. Without wanting to sound unhelpful if you've got that amount of RMB cash you've presumably either been working here for some time and should have planned in advance, or you've won the lottery and should stop moaning

Some less legal options are

There are money changers hanging around the major Banks of China. While these guys do operate outside the law, they are regular fixtures and aren't complete rip-off merchants.

Some stores around Sanlitun operate a currency exchange service. I don't know any specific addresses to recommend, but I know people who've done this with no hassle.

As JohnD said, Chinese people can now change a certain amount of RMB for foreign currency no questions asked. However there's presumably a limit, and effectively you are just asking them to act as a money changer.

Find a friendly foreigner who needs RMB - ie embassy or international school staff who get paid in USD, a foreign student who needs to pay fees in RMB but has brought stacks of Euros.

Some kind of bank magic is also possible - there are Chinese credit cards which advertise that they can be used to withdraw cash abroad. However when I looked into getting one of these they needed proof of residence and employment, etc.

[flameproof]

Just a side note: You can use your Union Pay card in many shops in Hong Kong, and (as far as I know, never tried though) withdraw money (that would be HK$) from some ATM in Hong Kong.

That would be perfectly legal.

For bringing >20,000 RMB out of China, true, you seldom get checked. But since the largest bank note is only 100, 20,000 is already brick sized.

And for those who sell US$, be careful of fake RMB bills. Make sure you know how to spot fakes.

[Lindsay]

Just to clarify, I am neither a money launderer or some scheming currency trader, although I wouldn't mind being a foreign exchange trader at some investment bank.

As for the money, not all sources of money originate from an employment avenue or a "holy cow, i just hit the jackpot" source. It could simply be from a family inheritance or handsome stock returns.

Luckily, I will not be needing the assistance of opportunistic middlemen who might just take my money and run. I'd like to keep my morals and my money. I have close family relatives in beijing and thanks to the suggestion of johnd, they will be making a few runs to the bank.

[roddy]

Fair enough. Would be interesting if you can let us know what the limits on your family exchanging money are, and how much a hassle it is for them to do.

[Lindsay]

sure thing.

[Springbokke]

It's been a while since the last post but I have secured an expat position in Suzhou starting April and initially I went for full salary in RMB thinking it has a sound future as a strenghtening currency (flameproof's influence).

However some friends in China have suggested it would be very hard to change the RMB to any foreign currency should I wish to invest some off shore, or when I move on.

If I open a HSBC or Standard Chartered bank account in Hong Kong, will my company be able to pay my RMB salary directly into this account reflected in HKD or USD - or at least into a mainland branch that will transfer to HK withouth the mentioned hassels?

Maybe I was too quick to commit to RMB - should I reconsider another currency for payment or part thereof?

Thanks.

[flameproof]

If I open a HSBC or Standard Chartered bank account in Hong Kong, will my company be able to pay my RMB salary directly into this account reflected in HKD or USD - or at least into a mainland branch that will transfer to HK withouth the mentioned hassels?

No & no. The first one is unlikely since your company will have wire transfer cost each time of about rmb200. I am also not if rmb even can be wired to HK. But if you compnay has an office in HK it's very possible to have at least a large part of the salary paid out in HK.

Having a HSBC account in China is no help since it is a different company from HSBC HK and there is really zero connection, even though they look the same.

I would not worry collecting RMB and you can transfer your money out of China. It's a bureaucratic hassle but it possible.

I do some private swaps with some people. They pay RMB into my CN account, and I pay US$, HK$ or € into their outside CN bank account. No problem fore me since I have a need for some RMB. (But I am well covered now)

[cdn_in_bj]

How about buying gold bars? It's very easy to do so here on the mainland. I've been thinking about this lately - I think it would be fun to have my own "treasure chest", so to speak, and for the longtimers here it would be a good hedge against social/economic turmoil. However, gold is not cheap right now.

[flameproof]

However, gold is not cheap right now.

I guess that's why people want it.

I see a problem with the re-sell. You may have to sell it for a high discount as people are scared to buy from obscure sources.

[cdn_in_bj]

I see a problem with the re-sell. You may have to sell it for a high discount as people are scared to buy from obscure sources.

I have heard that the places selling it here will buy it back for a 2-8 RMB/g commission. Not sure about overseas, plus there is the matter of getting that gold out of the country.

[flameproof]

plus there is the matter of getting that gold out of the country.

From my experience in Hong Kong gold is in demand in China and PRCnese like to buy gold in Hong Kong, I presume some to resell it in the PRC.

RMB 2 - 8/g is 1-4%, sounds reasonable if that's from the spot price.