Handwriting - is it useful?

[flameproof]

Handwriting - is it useful?

For those who learn reading I am aware that (hand) writing will probably help comprehension, and also help recognition to some extend.

But I wonder if I really need it. I find writing with a PC (Pinyin input) very easy. And basically, I can write what I can talk quite fast. However, writing by hand would be impossible for me. But I have no need, ever, for handwriting. Even in English I don't handwrite much. It's all PC based.

I am also aware that (with my low character knowledge of 200+) get easily fooled by similar looking characters. However, usually you can get a meaning out of context too.

From my teacher friends I know also that handwriting knowledge goes down in China too because of heavy PC use.

I am certainly not going to learn handwriting (at least not in this lifetime), but like to read other peoples views on it.

PS: up to very recently I belonged to the "speaking only" camp and had nearly no character knowledge. Only recently I discovered that (PC) writing helps my Pinyin, is educational, and most important, is fun.

[gougou]

I am learning to write characters because they are what sets Chinese apart from other languages. But they're just that, really - a cultural gimmick. They have little practical value apart from impressing relatives or Chinese acquaintances. If I wanted to learn Chinese as efficiently as possible, I certainly would not learn them. Yet luckily, four years of business studies have not made me that efficiency-addicted yet!

[flameproof]

I am not questioning characters as such. Now I prefer to learn with characters for the fun and the challenge.

But I really can't see why I should be interested in handwriting, considering that even in other languages I do almost no handwriting at all.

[gougou]

I guess it's for those a bit romantic at heart. A bit like choosing between learning to play the piano, and learning how to operate a CD-player. You do it as a hobby, without wanting any greater purpose for it.

Now that I don't have a piano here, writing characters has become my number one pastime!

[gato]

I think you should concentrate on how to speak and read first and defer learning how to write until you have the basics. That is how written Chinese is taught in the mainland nowadays, too, to some extent. Reading is given a higher priority than writing in the early grades. Students are taught enough characters to read an average newspaper by second grade ( recognize 1600-1800 characters and write 800-1000).

You are right that there are not that many occasions where you need to handwrite, but there are the occasional forms to fill out when handwriting is helpful. Some forms are in Chinese only, but you should know how to read the forms first (and you can fill them out in English even though Chinese is expected).

[flameproof]

gato

good point. Learn reading first (I guess one can claim that those who can read can also write using a PC). And then maybe later, and only maybe, and not define "later" I may pick up a bit of writing.

(However, I may still learn a little about stroke order, for now I can not input more complicated characters into Pleco's character recognition)

[gougou]

(However, I may still learn a little about stroke order, for now I can not input more complicated characters into Pleco's character recognition)

Interesting point. With handheld devices becoming more and more mainstream, handwriting might actually increase in importance again. Maybe in a couple of years, there won't be stories about Chinese university graduates not being able to fill in forms with personal information anymore.

[lau]

yeah, and my 手机 also taught me that stroke order IS important: when i needed to input a character without knowing the pinyin, the stroke order input (?) came in handy a few guesses at wich hook/line comes first, and there the character is

learning writing the "traditional way" is not really optional, i'd say. first, it's not that difficul. and whats more important - being able to write by hand, knowing how it's done, helps a lot when you suddenly need to read someones handwritten note. and them chinese do tend to get unintelligible handwritings...

[gougou]

Being able to write by hand, knowing how it's done, helps a lot when you suddenly need to read someones handwritten note.

So I was hoping. Sadly, I've seen barely any improvement in my ability to read Chinese people's handwriting - and the improvement that there was might actually be due to getting used to Chinese handwriting rather than to my own writing skills.

[leosmith]

I probably won't try to learn how to write normally, like writing a story or a letter, etc.

But learning how to write individual characters is the first step of learning how to read for me. First, I'll learn how to write the 3000 most common characters, given their meanings in english, using the Heisig method. That will take about 300 hours. Then I will be able to learn how to read all the vocabulary words that I already know pinyin for. I was able to learn 60 words per day this way when I studied Japanese. Finally, I will practice reading normal things like books, newspapers, etc.

[889]

You don't tell us your objectives: why are you studying Chinese?

But unless you can at least complete a simple form or leave a short note for a colleague, you're not going to be regarded as having good skills in Chinese, no matter how well you speak.

Remember that when you learn a language, you also learn a culture. And deep appreciation of the Chinese language, including Chinese characters, is one of the strongest identities of Chinese culture.

[Guest mamba9]

Dont you just hate it when you graduate highschool and when you reach college your like "damn i should have paid more attention back then." Or how your already a grown up parent shopping, low on budget, and say "damn i should have studied my math, i have no idea how to calculate these 25% off items."

People sound so ignorant when they say "i have on use for this, why would i ever study this, its useless." You can just ignore it now, but youll regret it later, ill guarantee you that.

And like what 889 said, what sets Chinese apart from other languages is that beautiful art that is handwriting. And if you wish to ignore that part of the langauge, i should ask that same question...

Why are you studying Chinese?

[gato]

First, I'll learn how to write the 3000 most common characters, given their meanings in english, using the Heisig method. That will take about 300 hours.

I think it's closer to 3000 hours, if by "learn how to write" you mean being able to remember how to write.

[leosmith]

I think it's closer to 3000 hours, if by "learn how to write" you mean being able to remember how to write.

But not with Heisig my friend. 300 should do it. Check this out:

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/

[flameproof]

My library has the Heisig book. I will pick it up later.

I wonder if the radicals correspond directly to Hanzi though. And here is now the correct link to the first 126 pages if Heisig's book:

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/pdf/RK4/RK4-00.pdf

Another question (sorry if it's really silly): are radicals to JP and CN are the same? And is there a difference in trad. and simpl.?

But unless you can at least complete a simple form or leave a short note for a colleague, you're not going to be regarded as having good skills in Chinese, no matter how well you speak.

That is not my experience. My experience is that Chinese look at you in utter amazement after you say "Ni Hao"

You don't tell us your objectives: why are you studying Chinese?

To use it.

Remember that when you learn a language, you also learn a culture. And deep appreciation of the Chinese language, including Chinese characters, is one of the strongest identities of Chinese culture.

No, no & no. And one more no. I speak English too and have not much interest in US culture, even though I go once in a while to McDonalds. I still use English despite objecting to some national icons, such as KFC. And I have no "appreciation" for English either. It's a neutral tool and Chinese is the same for me. I don't buy that "must love" stuff.

[gato]

But not with Heisig my friend. 300 should do it.

I'm skeptical. How many hours have you spent with this method, and how many characters have you memorized?

In my experience, memorizing how to write at a rate of 10 new characters per hour is impossible. It's a tall order for even just recognizing the characters. I think those who have tried can attest to that.

[Marco]

For me knowing how to write in Chinese is quite handy, I am living in China, working and studying, my boyfriend is Chinese too, so being able to write is useful, a note on the table that you will be home late, being able to write down quickly what your collages need to prepare for the next meeting and so on, just the same way as at home, being in a Chinese environment 24 hours a day makes that using Chinese characters becomes rather normal. Having read more then one topic in this forum about the usefulness of being able or read and write characters, I feel that being able to read and write is not a question of usefulness but rather a question of you willing to put in the effort to study it, it may be difficult in the beginning but as soon as you know how the whole thing works it becomes quite easy. Reading some of the forum members ( rather aggressive) defenses( not in this link by the way) for not having to learn how to write, makes me feel that some of them seem to look for an excuse not having to learn it, I wonder why, afraid maybe ? Anyway, wanting to learn how write is all up to yourself, if you think there is no need for it, then forget it, if you think it is useful then go for it.

[flameproof]

a note on the table that you will home late

How you put a note on a table that you will be late, lets say from work? (But I think with SMS you need some ideas about writing too (cell phones never use Pinyin, right??))

rather a question of you willing to put in the effort to study it

...or lack thereof. That's probably my point. Working full time and having not much study would be my best excuse. The little time I have I do spend on reading. And of course speaking.

But with more reading ability writing may becomes interesting. Note: I never said never!

PS: it's a bit of a bother that I can't use Chinese on my cell phone. ALso other PC input methods, such as Wubi look intriguing. I am sure one day I can't resist and I may start to study.

[Marco]

I prefer to lay down a note on the table ( I know I am showing my age hehe), of course I could send a SMS, but I like the note better.

Work and study I do it both, it may be tiring, but it makes me feel good to see the progress I make.

Again do as you like, its a big world with a place for everyone

[novemberfog]

I am sure there are many reasons to not learn to write Chinese by hand these days. I admit that my Japanese is much better in front of a computer than in front of a blank piece of paper. When I sit down in a staff meeting and my coworkrs are taking notes, I feel embarrassed that I cannot do the same. Instead, I jot down my notes in English. They always say, "Oh, so amazing!", but in truth, I feel bad. I understand 100% of the contents of the meeting, but I can't write most of what they are saying. I can read it in a transcript, but I simply cannot remember how to write it all.

For overall fluency, I think learning to write by hand is essential. The ability to jot down a short note on a post-it in a just a few seconds is critical if you want to claim yourself as fluent.