Classroom time in Universities - efficiently used?

[myann23]

Hello All,

Some of you might know that I'm still deciding between using a private tutor or going the university route when I am in Beijing.

As far as the universities are concerned, it seems like 4 hours of classtime a day are standard.

I was wondering, how efficiently are those 4 hours used? Is there a lot of dead time? How much of it is drilling? How much of the things do you in the classroom you could do just as effectively with a private tutor and self-study?

Ultimately, to sum up this question, can I learn 2 hours with a private tutor what I can learn in a 4 hour class? I'll be very busy in Beijing with a part-time internship and also possibly teaching English, therefore I'd like some opinions so I could more efficiently plan my schedule.

Thanks!

[simonlaing]

HI Myan,

I used the switch to two hour tutoring technique in my last semester at Nanjing University. (Part of the problem was at the 5 semester stage there were cultural classes and the most of them did not interest me, (i.e. Sung dynasty poetry, Minor religions in CHina, classical texts, and only the reading comprehension for 2 hours a week seemed to be good. )

I switched and with another student had a tutor 2 hours a day five days a week. The benefits were that we could choose the textbook, (Business chinese, level 4 Fazhan hanyu, slang colloquial course in Chinese by beiyu yuan daxue, and Chinese Maxim magazine, nan ren) . We made the two tutors give us dictations or other tests to make us review the books each time. It was quite productive, though we had to change teachers in the middle because one guy kept thinking he was teaching a 60 person class a was lecturing most of the time.

When I was in regular Chinese classes, how good the classes were often depended on the teacher. Some teachers spent the whole 2 hours or 4 hours pretty much lecturing. Sometimes I'd bring snacks to help me stay awake. If you fell asleep teachers often didn't mind as it was better than chatting and disturbing the class. There were others that had more of a flexible style and did have some class participation, these were usually done by the female grad school teachers. I did have a really good modern international relations class that was interactive. (Stuff like the great leap forward's disasterous effects were largely because Russia wanted its loans (including Korean War loans) paid back on time 1960 and with high quality goods. The internet newspaper class was good too I guess.

While I was in the 4 hour YueDu lecture class it was tough. You take a 5-10 minute break after 50 minutes but still by the 3 hour of straight lecture (some writing on the board, but no acknowledgement of my raising my hand to ask a question, as he had a schedule.)

The other thing about the class is that seeing other people struggle or show up to class gives you pressure to be there also. I had a lot of Koreans and Germans in my class. The koreans almost never asked questions and wrote down every thing the teacher said. The Germans often conducted a running commentary in the back of the classroom on how the teacher is teaching, the weather, how drunk they were last night etc... very strange talking while the teacher was explaining things. (they often skipped class in the latter half of the semester.)

In another class at nanjing normal that was dominated by koreans, the teacher taught to the majority which was the koreans who didn't want to stop to answer silly homework questions.

Some downsides to tutoring is that the tutor will only prepare and give you homework as you as them to. If you don't do the homework a couple time she may stop giving it to you or stop preparing quizes etc... I also found tutoring with a partner helped pressure me to prepare.

Good luck with your internship.

have fun,

Simon:)

[amandagmu]

I think a tutor is fine as long as they really tutor you, i.e. speak in Chinese the whole time. In class they won't speak anything but Chinese to you... but I'm not a huge fan of the way you 'learn' often times by just memorizing and repeating phrases, dialogues, etc. On the other hand if you know you are unlikely to speak Chinese unless forced to... Many people say "oh I need a tutor" when they are a high beginner or even intermediate level but they still would rather speak mostly in English. Also, there's always the class pressure of homework and the interaction with others that can be beneficial.

Also, be aware: when I was there,many free "language exchanges" ended up being in English only. If you hire a tutor and pay them reasonably and they speak mostly English to you, you can demand they speak Chinese since you're paying. Sounds harsh, I know, but I've seem people get cheated with "cheap" tutors who are really little more than language exchange partners.

My recommendation for finding a tutor, if you're serious and willing to pay a little more (up to $10-12 or 100 kuai per hour) is to find a university language professor with spare time on their hands. Sure, a cheap tutor would be 15-30 kuai / hour but I've seen a huge difference with people who pay the extra $ for an actual teacher. Scout the Qinghua/Beida/BLCU bulletin boards, WuDaoKou area cafes and bulletin boards, and probably Beijing Normal University and Beijing Foreign Language University. If you don't see anyone who posting who is an actual language professor/teacher, I would start asking students at the universities (foreign language students) to help you find a professor to be your tutor. Classes usually let out at noon every day and you can probably speak with students and profs right afterwards.

~Amanda

[kdavid]

If you have a great tutor, he or she might just be better than a classroom.

Since arriving in Harbin 5 months ago I've gone through 3 tutors.

The first (and best, but also most expensive, 75 kuai for 90 mins--really not that bad) was a female post-grad. Though she could speak English, in class she only spoke Chinese. She was also experienced and very patient.

The second was much cheaper (30 kuai for 2 hours). He spoke English all the time, cancelled often and was always late.

The third had no experience and could not speak English. He spoke too quickly and could not seperate his words (word fushion / connected speech).

Finances permitting, I'd go back to my old tutor, though she was often poorly prepared, she was still the best. I'm sure you can find a good one, but as the above posts say, they'll probably be expensive.

[hunxueer]

assuming that you're very self-directed and disciplined, know exactly what you want out of your chinese studies (and i don't mean "to become proficient" but more something along the lines of "i want to learn X vocab and X grammar patterns in X amount of time and improve my abilities in these areas"), AND can quickly find a tutor you can work with, you'll probably get more out of the tutor.

the problem is, most people aren't the above.

going to class isn't so much about the content (for me); it's about the structure and social pressure a class environment creates (i'm not very good with self-disciplined). i've mentioned before that moving here you'll have billions of distractions so it's very easy to lose sight of what you initially planned to do (and this isn't special to my case; i've seen plenty of people -- people who, before they moved, seemed to have everything together -- let their language-studying plans fall by the wayside in favor of going out and doing things, adjusting to life here, etc.).

the second challenge is knowing what you want out of language studies, which i think is rather difficult to point down until you have some experience behind you as a framework or basis upon which to formulate your plans.

and lastly, the biggest challenge, in my opinion, is trying to find a good tutor. i suspect it'll be easier in beijing than it is in chengdu, given that it is the foreign student hub of china, but it probably won't be as easy as you'd guess. just as not all "native english speakers" are cut out to be english teachers, nor are all native chinese speakers cut out to be chinese teachers. in fact, i'd say most aren't. the situation here differs from that of the english speaking world as well in that english is the world's most commonly spoken second language; therefore most english speakers are used to or at least aware of communicating with ESL speakers, whereas the majority of folks in china have come across very few (if any) chinese-speaking foreigners. so things that we might take for granted (slowing down the rate of speech, choosing words carefully, enunciating, etc.) don't always occur to the average chinese person you meet on the street. when you find somebody who "gets" this, i'd say snatch him/her up as your tutor--this, i think, is more important than in-depth knowledge of chinese grammar or teaching experience, at least for beginning students.

[1on1Mandarin]

assuming that you're very self-directed and disciplined, know exactly what you want out of your chinese studies (and i don't mean "to become proficient" but more something along the lines of "i want to learn X vocab and X grammar patterns in X amount of time and improve my abilities in these areas"), AND can quickly find a tutor you can work with, you'll probably get more out of the tutor.

the problem is, most people aren't the above.

I would have to agree with this statement. As I have experienced on many occasions, it is probably best for the majority of people enter into a structured program. The university system can offer that structure, but as mentioned, the large classes often don't encourage the active participation that a 1on1 or small class would provide. You should also be open to considering many smaller private mandarin training programs available in Beijing, which can offer the smaller class size as you would find with a tutor, but with the structure and academic methodology found in universities.

In terms of "efficiency", it really depends what you are trying to get out of the class. If you are concerned with your reading and writing skills, the university route should be fine. Learning speaking and practical mandarin skills, however, would probably be best in a small class size (i.e. 1on1 or 1on3). These types of classes are generally more "efficient" with class time and students' participation. Furthermore, I think that westerners are generally more responsive to such structures due to the encouragement of active participation. In a sense, it is more dynamic and easier to absorb.