Concepts of the experience of color

[bunburryist]

I speak no Chinese, but am interested in how the experience of color in vision is expressed implicitly in Chinese language and thinking. Specifically, is color always expressed as being an aspect of an object (or light) as in English, or is it sometimes expressed as being an aspect of an experience, or the person himself?

[hunxueer]

could you give us some examples of how it might be expressed as an aspect of experience or of the person him/herself?

this sounds interesting but at the moment i don't really understand what you're talking about so i can't give any input (though even if you do explain i don't know if i can anyway, my mandarin level being intermediate at best).

[Koneko]

This reminds me so much of the continental philosophy of lightness (yes, as in relative slightness of weight NOT intensity of colour)! I don't think we've got anything like this in Chinese.

The closest equivalent I can think of is the concept of Yin & Yang.

K.

[Ole]

If you use the "English" Search- function on http://zhongwen.com/ you can test for the etymology of the characters for some colors.

[Koneko]

If you use the "English" Search- function on http://zhongwen.com/[/url'] you can test for the etymology of the characters for some colors.

I think, bunburryist was looking for something for abstract, cosmic?!

Einmal ist Keinmal

K.

[rose~]

This is all over my head, but thinking about colour, the colour black is used as a prefix to describe something as being not above-board, or to imply illegality in Chinese. For example, an unlicensed taxi or [pop=underground taxi/hēichē]黑车[/pop] is literally a "black car". It's unfortunate that this usage could be offensive.

Red may be used to denote popularity rather than Communism (e.g. [pop=he/tā]他[/pop][pop=is very/hěn]很[/pop][pop=red/hóng]红[/pop] means "he is very popular").

Is this the kind of use of colour as an aspect of an object or person that you mean?

[Gulao]

I've not heard color used to describe experiences, but I have heard flavor used, although that more often is used in the context of emotions.

[Koneko]

Is this what you were looking for?

Written in Chinese though.

K.

[Lu]

This is all over my head, but thinking about colour, the colour black is used as a prefix to describe something as being not above-board, or to imply illegality in Chinese.

It's the same in Dutch, actually. Zwart werk (black work) = work that no taxes are paid over; zwartrijden (black riding) = taking train or bus without buying a ticket.

Red has lots and lots of meanings. I believe 'popular' is a recent one, it has meant 'happiness/good luck' for a long time already.

[bunburryist]

This isn't a philosphy or physics forum, so I won't go too deeply into it, but for about 30 years I've been developing a new way of thinking about vision, as well as a general way of thinking about what we, and "the world" are.

As a quick intro to my question about Chinese and color, ask yourself this - how does your brain (which is "here") put the experience of color "over there"? Another way of asking the same question is, how does light going into my eyes "here" make me experience color "over there"?

If you think about it, although we learn to attribute color to objects, the only way we really know of it to exist is as an aspect of experience. Material objects, or more specifically, the atoms they are made of, do not have color as an aspect. Neither does light. The experience of color can be part of dreams, pressing on your closed eyes, halucinations, synesthesia, getting whacked in the head (seeing stars), etc. - all things we experience. I have come to think of my experience of color as being something I AM. Just as my thoughts are not something I "have," but rather something I am, so my experience of color is not something I "see," implying that it exists indepedently of me as a being, but rather an aspect of me as a being. Also part of this is a different understanding of the relationship between brains in our experience and that experience as a whole.

I have come to understand that the reason I can "see" red "over there" is because I am, literally, "being red there." That is, my experience of color is something I am. I am not "a living thing in a world," but rather a being of experience. This understanding of color is only one part of a fundamentally different way of thinking about what kind of beings we are, and this is by no means an adaquate explanation. The reason for my question was that I wondered if perhaps there are languages where this idea - that my experience of color is something I am, rather than being thought of as being an aspect of an object - is implicit in everyday language.

[hunxueer]

at the risk of going way off the topic of this forum (since i can't really provide insight as to the mandarin aspect of this thread--to my [again, limited] knowledge, words relating to color are used, functionally, about the same as they are in english)--couldn't this argument essentially be applied to anything we think we experience with the five senses? i.e., sounds (i hear an A flat) or feels (the sweater is itchy) or tastes (candy is sweet) etc.? what's so special about color?

[anonymoose]

Well, depending on how you define colour, you are right and wrong when you say atoms do not have colour as an aspect. Since you have been thinking about this for 30 years, I suspect you already know this, but the 'colour' of light is determined by its frequency. And atoms definitely do emit characteristic frequencies of light, and in this sense, have a colour. How your eyes register the frequency of the light, and your brain interprets that into a colour is of course subjective, and varies between animal species and even between humans (eg. colour blindness). So the concept of colour (as opposed to actual physical attributes such as frequency) by its very nature is a personal experience, or in your words, a part of your being. But as hunxueer pointed out, our tendency to describe subjective experiences in terms of objective 'realities' is not limited to colour, but also includes sound, feel, taste, etc..