Zhuyin, Bopomofo, Pinyin systems?

[Stefani]

Hello,

I am learning Mandarin with my 3 year old son, and we are in a class with a teacher from Taiwan. It is a full immersion class aimed for 4-6 year olds.

The characters are traditional Chinese, with what I think is Bopomofo symbols, and romanization. Now, the problem is that the romanization doesn't seem to be Hanyu Pinyin, for example: wo shi .... (pick one of the animals in the Chinese zodiac) is written as "uo sh ...", turtle is "guei" instead of "gui", etc. What is that Romanization system?

Is Zhuyin the same as Bopomofo?

As my Mandarin is still very beginner, not getting the Pinyin takes me longer to find the meanings of the words in online dictionaries like Zhongwen.com and MandarinTools.com. If I know the Romanization system used, maybe there is a conversion table between that and Pinyin?

Xie xie.

[skylee]

These may be useful ->

http://www.pinyin.info/romanization/bopomofo/basic.html

http://www.pinyin.info/romanization/compare/zhuyin.html

http://www.pinyin.info/tools/index.html

[kkoma]

skylee, 谢谢

[atitarev]

Stefani,

You're example is obviously Wade-Giles romanisation schema,which is one of the plethora used in Taiwan. There must be better conversion tables but this one I found after a quick search. Use pages provided by Skylee for Zhuyin Fuhao to Hanyu Pinyin conversion.

http://www.library.pitt.edu/libraries/eal/DOCS/CRC.pdf

HanConv (www.icycloud.tk) is a good conversion tool can convert from Zhuyin Fuhao to Hanyu Pinyin but not the other way around

[skylee]

You're example is obviously Wade-Giles romanisation schema

but i think it looks like Gwoyeu Romatzyh on the pinyin.info page. but the only romanisation that I've studied is hanyu pinyin so maybe I am wrong.

[Lu]

wo shi .... is written as "uo sh ...", turtle is "guei" instead of "gui", etc. What is that Romanization system?

This is most definately not Wade-Giles (in W-G 'wo shi' would be 'wo shih...', and it has no g). It looks like a romanisation of the bopomofo symbols. I've never seen it used anywhere, and it doesn't look like a good idea to have this used in class. In your case, I think the best idea is to learn bopomofo (=zhuyin fuhao), and go by that system and ignore the 'pinyin' altogether.

Edit: Zhongwen.com has a bopomofo index, so if you know bopomofo you can easily search that.

[HashiriKata]

It looks like a romanisation of the bopomofo symbols.

I think Lu may have got it. The teacher may be trying to transcribe Zhuyin / Bopomofo into roman letters for the benefit of the learners. If the learners know what sounds these letters represent, I don't see much harm in it (It's inconvenient when you're faced with different, more popular systems, of course).

[Lugubert]

The guei makes me think that the teachers has a very own modication of pinyin, which to the teacher looks more logical. After all, it's pronounced (IPA) [gwei]. Likewise the other examples.

Older systems, like W-G as mentioned, China Inland Mission, and the three(!) systems in Mathews' dictionary, don't use voiced letters. Chao Yuen-Ren, in his grammar explicitely addressing spoken Chinese, writes sh for 是. On the other hand, he has woo for 我, and for 贵 he uses guey. If I understand his GR correctly, 鬼 would be goei.

[atitarev]

Apologies if I mixed up systems.

IMHO, it would be hard for learners to use romanisation systems invented by teachers. Learning with native teachers is still beneficial but learners will have to learn a standard romanisation on their own to be able to use dictionaries, input methods, for example.

[Stefani]

Thank you everyone for your replies. It does seem that the teachers are using their own Romanization as they are not familiar with Pinyin (being from Taiwan). That is unfortunate as it is a lot easier if I get the right Pinyin to find the words in the dictionary.

[Lu]

There are dictionaries using bopomofo, like Zhongwen.com, and the Yuandong dictionary.

You can always learn hanyu pinyin later, it's not hard, especially if you already know bopomofo. Also, bopomofo is a good system in its own right, not very widely used, but fine for learning.

[gato]

Maybe you can suggest that the teacher learn the pinyin system instead of inventing his/her own romanization scheme. Learning pinyin should be just as easy, if not easier, and it'd be easier for you to follow, too. If you and your child continue with your Chinese studies after this teacher, knowing pinyin would be far more useful, too.

Here are a couple of conversion tables between bopomofo and pinyin:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/language/zhuyin.html

Zhuyin and Pinyin Conversion Table

http://www.cybertranslator.idv.tw/pinyin/bopomofo.htm

Chinese Characters Pinyin Comparative Table

[Stefani]

Lu & Gato,

Thank you for your replies. Thanks for the Zhuyin -> Pinyin table from Gato & Lu, I printed that out, and I think the ones that the teacher put the Zhuyin I can just find the Pinyin and then go from there. I was thinking about learning Zhuyin, but my time is limited (at least the minutes that are not occupied by other things like work, house and a toddler :-).

I don't know that Zhongwen has bopomofo index, I'll look that up, too.

Thanks.