How do deaf Chinese people read lips?

[mandarinstudent]

I've got a question for the language buffs here.

The other day I watched a program about a troupe of deaf Chinese dancers. They were all "listening" to their instructor teach. How???? The Chinese language is based on tones. How can they read lips? If I make a mistake with the tones people can't understand me, but these deaf people can read lips with no tones whatsoever. Logically, if a deaf Chinese person can read lips, a normal Chinese person should be able to understand toneless Chinese, however, everyone knows that this isn't true. Anyone know how this works?

[Peng]

I used to go to Chinese deaf school until I was nine years old and moved to Canada. I did remember learning oral and sign at same time, but I am not sure if we were taught how to read lip Chinese or not. Now, I think it's impossible for me to read lip Chinese, only can read lip English. Alas, I should've asked this international student from China, but she already graduated.

Didn't the teacher sign to deaf dancers while speaking?

That's a mystery.

[atitarev]

Wait for natives but I think the problem with understanding toneless Chinese is about confusing the intended words for something else, so it's more of a problem saying the wrong tone rather than without any tone. shìjiàn is more confusing than shijian, isn't it, if I want to say 时间 - shíjiān?

With lip-reading, you have to be conscious of even more homophones than usual and rely on the context only. BTW, Chinese Dungan dialect in Kyrgyzstan is written entirely in Cyrillic letters without tone marks. Lip-readers don't read classical poems or some complex theories, do they? It would be something really simple.

[roddy]

a normal Chinese person should be able to understand toneless Chinese, however, everyone knows that this isn't true. Anyone know how this works?

With a little extra effort and a restricted context like the one you describe I'd say understanding toneless Chinese is entirely possible - not perfect and with the potential for misunderstanding, but still doable. Or perhaps they were doing what so many students do - nodding happily but not understanding a single word.

[gougou]

Agree with roddy, toneless Chinese is entirely possible. I'm living proof of it - I make plenty of mistakes with my tones, but it bothers me more than any Chinese I've ever talked to. Also, for the longest time I have not paid attention to tones at all and still was able to understand what people were saying. Like atitarev says, unless you get into classical poems or the like, context should be obvious enough.

What is puzzling me, though, is how you can lip-read in any language, tones or not... I find it very impressive!

[horas]

*

If the speaker everytime 'says' a character he should add also the tone (1,2,3,4) for that character with his fingers (1,2,3,4). Or try to 'write' the characters in the air. How about that folks?

[Lu]

I agree with roddy and gougou about the tones, but apart from that, how do deaf Chinese see the difference between zhi, chi and shi, and between zi, si and ci? Looks all alike, I think.

[roddy]

If the speaker everytime 'says' a character he should add also the tone (1,2,3,4) for that character with his fingers (1,2,3,4). Or try to 'write' the characters in the air. How about that folks?

Even assuming you can find speakers who can remember the tones as fast as they talk, they're going to get sprained fingers. Would be fun to watch though.