Characters?

[DrZero]

I'm almost afraid to post this because I know I am in the minority, but what do you guys think about learning with no characters, only pinyin? It's what I do, because I have a Chinese wife and thus lots of reasons/opportunities to learn spoken language, but not much use for characters in everyday life.

To me characters seem like they would take time away from listening and speaking (though I do know a limited number of them). I know there is an advantage in being able to read and learn new phrases and structures from written text, but I am just not sure it's worth the investment of time yet because I hear Mandarin constantly at home. So far I feel like the approach is working for my needs.

In other words, I am well aware that they confer an advantage, I am just not sure that the degree of advantage merits the time investment vs. learning by ear and with pinyin, for my needs personally.

What do you think?

[Shadowdh]

To be honest I believe that characters add a whole dimension of understanding and its pretty cool to know them too... but for your situation it might be ok (and easier) to not learn them... if you dont have a need then why do it...?? the only hurdle (that might not eventuate) would be if a word sounded the same as another... then characters can come in handy, but then again you can usually work it out...

[jkmuller]

It's not really so much that knowing characters gives you an advantage, but that you cant read or write Chinese without them! I don't think many Chinese people write in pinyin. I have actually noticed that many Chinese American people know how to speak Chinese fluently, but can't write more than a few characters. They generally end up in beginner Chinese classes in college.

Essentially, if you're comfortable with the idea of not being able to read or write, you might be able to get away with it. Just realize that these are pretty essential parts to any language. From what you've said about your situation it seems like you can probably do pretty well without the characters, but you can always change your mind down the road anyway.

[doumeizhen]

I agree. There are lots of people, including Chinese ones, who can speak and not write. It does help to know the characters because there are so many words that sound alike, but honestly, if you can speak well enough to understand and explain the difference (should these words come up in conversation), then you are fine. Plus, the more I learn I find that a lot of words that sound the same oftentimes are quite different, some colloquial some bookish, so I think the chace of this becoming an actual stumbling block is next to nothing. If you are happy with your level and willing to give up 'the other dimension" that Chinese adds, then don't fret it. Maybe just learn a little so you can get around and point adn read with your future children.

[YuehanHao]

DrZero,

For not completely disinterested reasons, I once considered a similar question myself.

I believe for any language both the spoken and written parts stand on their own; clearly literacy is not necessary for fluency, and so too can some scholars read languages they cannot speak. Homophones or other difficulties do not impact this decision, since good speakers will provide the context that is necessary for understanding.

So I would suggest your choice is basically personal subjective preference. I feel that with Chinese, perhaps moreso than other languages, significant insight into cultural history can be gleaned by studying the written language (i.e., characters). While a lot of work must go into memorizing, some of it will pay you back later, since the visual memory of a character can help one remember how it might be pronounced and its meaning (these items can be encoded in the character). So I would suggest it is a cost-benefit that only you can decide.

Another thing to keep in mind is that learning characters may not be a black and white enterprise. For instance, in my experience, recognizing characters from memory is much easier than writing them out by hand. So with this approach, after learning the pinyin, I could without too much exertion, type my Chinese "homework" into the computer with an IME and, through the computer, convert them to the corresponding characters. I found that to be a good first step for me.

约翰好！

[taaba]

I personally think being able to read Hanzi adds a new dimension into the whole learning process as well as enabling you to go your way and do your own thing with the newly acquired skills (Reading and writing hanzi), but as our friend mentioned literacy is not necessary for fluency.

[fundingd]

I would also have to say that you should take the time to learn how to read the characters. Like YuehanHao said, if you can read then you should be able to type or send SMS by using pinyin and selecting the correct character. It is much easier to learn to read in Chinese than it is to write. Another reason to learn the characters is that pinyin will only get you so far. Chinese has a lot of homophones and without knowing the characters you will greatly limit your understanding of the language and limit yourself to only communicating simple ideas.

In the end, it really comes down to how proficient you wish to be in Chinese. But by simply learning to recognize and read the characters, you will greatly increase your ability to communicate in Chinese and develop more of an appreciation and understanding of the language.

[laowai1980]

That's one of the issues I am concerned about too. At the beginning I was thinking I should learn both, but now I switched to listening/speaking mostly, I might get back to characters at a later point, but now I feel characters will take away fun of learning chinese for me, so I skip them for now. I think it's still a good idea to learn a few hundred most common characters even if you don't plan to have enough literacy to read newspapers. That should help a lot, but what do I know!

[Koneko]

Don't worry you are not alone!

There are tons of Chinese in Malaysia and Singapore who can only speak Chinese but cannot write or read Chinese.

We nickname them 香蕉人 (lit. Banana man)

Have you heard of this term?

K.

[YuehanHao]

Koneko,

That is too funny! 哈哈哈哈！So it looks like DrZero really needn't worry about learning characters after all, as long as he doesn't mind the possibility of earning a nickname like "banana man!" Sorry if I am getting that wrong!

约翰好！

[taaba]

I thought 香蕉人 is used for non-Chinese born Chinese. Once I had this discussion with our lecturer once and she was saying about how some people look Chinese on the surface (their appearance and the way they look) and within they are so far away from being real Chinese, and the Culture, feelings and way of thinking is far from a Chinese person. (like Banana Yellow on the outside, White in the inside)!.

[laowai1980]

Banana man, hehe, not insulting at all, I can do with that

That's a reference to tribes who don't have an alphabet right? (Just saw a post above about non-Chinese born Chinese and trying to check the origin).

[kaykaybobay]

Hello-

Well as my first post I must say I find the pinyin very difficult, it kinda of joggles my brain even trying to read it. I have been learning mandarin for a year and a couple of monthes now. My tutor who is from Taiwan had me using the John Defrancis books wich are pretty good. At first I was praticing writing everyday but with new job I just dotn have the time, though I do more so now. I would say I have learned all the vocabulary from the beginner Defrancis book by just pure memorization. I think memorizing the characters has maybe even helped my brain! I havent used the pinyin at all in my studies so far. Just seemed like I had to learn an extra language or something. I just memorized a lesson of vocab a week while riding on the bus. So far I can recall all the vocab. I would say then Pinyin is good for some, just maybe not everyone.

[[欧阳江]]

You don't need to know the characters to be able to speak Chinese.

[calibre2001]

It's a term used to label 'westernised' ethnic chinese people. 'East' and 'West' are culturally different (morales, philosophy etc), hence the label. However the inability to speak Chinese (or any of its dialects) supercedes the above 'condition' in reality. So, if a chinese behaves 'Eastern' but is unable to speak chinese, he/she is a banana. Strangely the term does not apply to the converse in real life.

In the US, 'westernised' Filipino-Americans are apparently labelled 'coconuts'. In India, it's 'Hamburger Kid'.

[Koneko]

I thought 香蕉人 is used for non-Chinese born Chinese.

The term is actually for ethnic Chinese who does not how to speak, write, understand his native language but educated in English. Just like the banana that has yellow "skin" (Outside; appearance) but with white "flesh" (Inside; actual self).

K.

[Pravit]

There have already been plenty of opinions posted about this, just wanted to add my thoughts:

When I was beginning to learn Chinese, I too skipped the characters, assuming that I would learn much more quickly. I was able to pick up basic vocabulary and sentence structure, but soon later I got bogged down because I couldn't remember any new words - I thought all the words sounded the same! However, this problem went away when I began to learn characters - I think having the characters to "anchor" a particular word to helps very much. As an example, now I think of "dan4" the egg, the dawn, and "but" as entirely different words, but it's the kind of thing I would be confused about when I didn't know characters.

[wrbt]

I personally think being able to read Hanzi adds a new dimension into the whole learning process

Yup! There will be far more resources for you out there if you learn the characters, from the structured (many textbooks don't use pinyin past beginner levels) to the casual like videos with transcript etc.

It seems really hard at first but I found once I got past about 1,000 it got a lot easier because more and more of the new words I already knew part or all of the character components, plus often able to guess how new characters will sound by their appearance thus easier to look up by pinyin.

[Czech Cara]

I agree with wrbt, learning Chinese without characters is like an illiterate studying medicine. After certain period it actually starts hepling you，when you receive and absorb the language by more channels, it gets under your skin faster. How will you remember/comprehend words like 金字塔 ， 丁字路口， 歪 = 不正， or understand chopsticks were first made of bamboo without 筷子？ Moreover, when I invited my dad to China I was proud to read the huge sign on the entrance to the Forbidden city for him. It is hard, but fun really too.