Auxilliary words in 文言文 Literary Chinese

[Mark Yong]

I am currently doing some self-study of 文言文 Literary Chinese. One of the areas that I am focussing on is the various auxilliary words used in the classical language.

A couple of questions:

What is the difference in usage for 此 and 斯? From what I gather, both mean "this". Is this correct? Or does it also mean "here"? In 林丗榮 Lam Sai Wing's manual of the 虎鶴雙形拳Tiger-Crane Boxing, he uses the phase "...於斯始則於斯終" ("... it begins here, therefore it ends here"). In the other hand, the final sentence in 西遊記 reads "西遊記至此終" ("the Journey To The West ends here").

Is there a character in 文言文 Classical Chinese for 'but', the equivalent of the modern 但是, 不過, etc.? I believe 卻 is modern, therefore not applicable. I have heard that 而 is the most commonly-used character, and sometimes 顧.

[Koneko]

What is the difference in usage for 此 and 斯? From what I gather, both mean "this". Is this correct? Or does it also mean "here"?

You're right. 此 = this. And it can also mean "here"

斯 = is also "here"

Have you heard of this well-known saying in Chinese:-

生于斯 ，长于斯 ，死于斯 。

It roughly means, "I was born here, I grew up here and I shall die here" It's normally used in a patriotic way.

K.

[test0012]

I'm very happy to see people to be interested in the Classical Chinese.

For "but", consider "然則“, two examples:

是进亦忧 退亦忧 然则何时而乐焉 其必曰 先天下之忧而忧后天下之乐而乐乎 (This is a very famous piece by Fan Zhongyan, Song Dynasty)

然则王之大欲 可知已 欲辟土地 朝秦楚 莅中国而抚四夷也

[Koneko]

I'm very happy to see people to be interested in the Classical Chinese.

Actually, I don't really like it. Simple Classical Chinese is okay but I find it very difficult to understand long passage written in Classical Chinese.

亦 can also be "but", I think.

K.

[shanli]

I think on conversation they use 可是 as "but"

[test0012]

Actually, I don't really like it. Simple Classical Chinese is okay but I find it very difficult to understand long passage written in Classical Chinese.

亦 can also be "but", I think.

K.

But I always enjoy its poetic and extremely short expressions. I think the Classical Chinese is a beauty, isn't it?

[Koneko]

Exactly! It's brief and straight to the point, so if you have a long message written in Classical Chinese, I find it hard to understand because it can be very, very long in Modern Chinese.

K.

[Mark Yong]

Hi, all,

Thanks for all your replies!

One example I know of where 而 is used for "but" is the following saying: "敬鬼神而遠之" ("respect the spirits, BUT keep them at a distance").

For "but", consider "然則“

That's an interesting one. I have not seen 'but' phrased that way before. I would have thought that in Classical Chinese, 然則 would mean "this being the case, therefore...".

亦 can also be "but", I think.

Funny you should mention "亦". Most people read it to mean "also". However, I read somewhere that in the 論語 Confucian Analects, in the phrase "學而時習不亦樂乎", the word 亦 is not supposed to be take as "also", but rather as a prefix to emphasise the "樂乎" that follows.

But I always enjoy its poetic and extremely short expressions. I think the Classical Chinese is a beauty, isn't it?

It's brief and straight to the point

Apart from the compactness of Classical Chinese, the other thing that I like about it is its universality. I wrote a separate thread about the universality of Literary Chinese as a written language that bridged not just the Chinese dialects, but also the East Asian nations (China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam) for close to two millennia. (http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/9426-literary-chinese-bridging-the-east-asian-nations)

I once actually tested out the applicability of Literary Chinese by writing a phrase out and asking a Japanese reader in a Japanese forum if he could understand it. I wanted to find out what the differences were between three different editions of the 大漢和辭典 available in the market. So, I wrote 此三版有何異? (in 普通話 colloquial Chinese, it would have been 這三版本有甚麼不同?) Seems he could decipher it (though, he did admit that it would not normally be written that way in standard Japanese!)

[Koneko]

學而時習不亦樂乎

I believe you missed out 之 between 習 and 不?!

K.

[Lugubert]

Funny you should mention "亦". Most people read it to mean "also". However, I read somewhere that in the 論語 Confucian Analects, in the phrase "學而時習不亦樂乎", the word 亦 is not supposed to be take as "also", but rather as a prefix to emphasise the "樂乎" that follows.

In a comment on the beginning of the story on when Mencius visited King Hui of Liang, Raymond Dawson writes (p. 25) in his An Introduction to Classical CHINESE

The basic meaning of i 亦 is 'also', but sometimes, as here, it is necessary to translate 'in the view of this', 'therefore', 'in conesquence'. In such cases the notion of consequence is really already implicit in the relationship between the subject-matter of the clause containing the i 亦 and that of the one preceding it. So although an i[/i'] 亦 merely implies that the subject matter of the second clause is an additional consideration and not a consequential one, an expression implying consequence is often desirable in translation.

[zhwj]

然而, naturally, as well as the abbreviated 然 would apply for the "however" sense, would they not?

[Koneko]

然而, naturally, as well as the abbreviated 然 would apply for the "however" sense, would they not?

Hmm... I don't really think so. I can't think of any example where 然 is used as "however". Can you give us some?

K.

[zhwj]

Su Dongpo writes: "自秦汉以来,作者益众,纸与字画日趋于简便,而书益多,世莫不有,然学者益以苟简,何哉?" Since the Qin and Han, writers have increased in number and the convenience of both paper and written characters has increased daily. So books have multiplied; they can be found everywhere. But students are more and more careless in their studies. Why is this?

More examples in (明)吴应箕《读书止观录》: Wu does not use 然而 at all; he uses 然则 for "so..." and 然 by itself for "but" or "however".

[studentyoung]

然而, naturally, as well as the abbreviated 然 would apply for the "however" sense, would they not?

常用词组

然而 rán'ér

[yet;however;but] 从另一方面来说——表示转折关系

乐曲终止了,然而无人离席

然而汝亦不在人间。——清• 袁枚《祭妹文》

http://www.zdic.net/zd/zi/ZdicE7Zdic84ZdicB6.htm

Thanks!

[Mark Yong]

Wu does not use 然而 at all; he uses 然则 for "so..." and 然 by itself for "but" or "however".

In one of the chapters of 孟子 Mencius, he uses 然 to mean 是的 or "yes, it is so".

On the topic of "yes", what is the equivalent of the modern 是 in Classical Chinese? We seem to have a lot of negating words, e.g. 不, 非, 無, 否, 勿, 莫, 弗. I would venture a guess and assume it would be 諾, 乃 or even 然 above. Any ideas? I suppose it would also depend on the context, too.