Comment on my accent!(2)

[Pravit]

Most of us would agree that developing an authentic-sounding accent in a certain language is near-impossible if you don't begin learning it as a child, and that having a good accent is not necessary for being understood.

Nevertheless, I like trying to develop a decent accent when I learn foreign languages and appreciate comments on what sounds foreign or weird. I've done a post like this before and received some very helpful answers. Anyhow, I felt like trying out my accent again, so if anyone has the time, I've attached the MP3s.

One of them is me reading from the beginning of Camel Xiangzi, however I fear I may not be entirely understandable, so here is the text(please listen to it before looking, though).

I talk to some Chinese on QQ every now and then, but in general I don't have much native speaker contact when I'm not in China. So I'd really appreciate it if any native speakers listening could point out foreign sounds, mispronounced words, or bad habits in my pronunciation. Thanks!

yeshenghuo.mp3

luotuoxiangzi.mp3

[semantic nuance]

Pravit,

I think you've done a great job. Only 2 pronunciations I found questionable:

駱駝 --in Taiwan we pronounce it as 駱4 駝 2, not 駱4 駝 4.

著落 --we pronounce it as zhou 2 luo4, not zhuo2 luo4.

Hope it helps!

[skylee]

著落 --we pronounce it as zhou 2 luo4, not zhuo2 luo4.

Are you sure? Did you mean zhao2 (wrong) vs zhuo2 (correct)?

[djwebb2004]

Pravit, I would LOVE to have a Chinese accent like that!

[HashiriKata]

I've only listened very briefly but you sound quite convincing, Pravit, particularly in the first passage. Keep it going!

With regards the pronunciations skylee & semantic nuance are about, they're still beyond me but belows are the 3 entries from Wenlin. I also had a peep in "新时代汉语大词典" but only the 1st entry was there:

zhuóluò (= whereabouts, result, outcome)

zháoluò (= solution)

zháolào (= way out of difficulty, hope, prospect)

Edit: Pravit seems to pronounce the word as zhuòluò, semantic nuance may have meant this?

[djwebb2004]

Pravit, I played your audio to a Chinese friend, and he did not believe you are a foreigner and told me you are Chinese. I told him you must be Indian because of your username Pravit, but then I looked at your blog and I am not sure if the Chinese man in the pictures is you or not. Your Chinese is very convincing. Are you Chinese?

[Pravit]

djwebb: Thanks! Yes, the Chinese guy in the pictures is me, but I was born and raised in the US by (ethnic Chinese) immigrants from Thailand. However, the family has been in Thailand long enough that nobody really speaks putonghua. I've been learning Mandarin for a couple years now, though, and went to Beijing last summer to do a short-term course. A lot of Thai names(like Pravit) are similar to Indian names because of the Sanskrit influence.

HashiriKata: I was pretty unsure how to read "着落", since my dictionary gave me a bunch of readings and I wasn't sure which one applied to the sentence(...连”车分儿“也没着落...)

Any other comments?

[djwebb2004]

Pravit, Wenlin has this to say:

着 seems to have more pronunciations and meanings than any other Chinese character. Don't be discouraged. Even Chinese people can't always get it straight, especially the distinction between 着 zháo and 着 zhuó. For example, a friend of mine says 着陆 as zháolù though the dictionaries say zhuólù. The dictionaries disagree on whether 着 in 不着边际 ('not to the point') should be zháo or zhuó. On the other hand, the distinction between 着 zhe and 着 zháo really is important.

Some words are definitely meant be said with zháo and some with zhuó and some words can be said with either. It is a bit of a meess. 着眼点 is listed as zhuóyǎndiǎn

or zháoyǎndiǎn, focal point, but Chinese friends say the former is more common. Looking in the dictioniary 着先鞭, to go to the fore, is also listed under both pronunciations. The putting on clothes meaning should definitely be zhuó and the reaching meaning should definitely be zháo.

A similar thing is 熟 shú, which can also be shóu. Wenlin says the latter is colloquial, and there is no list of words where one is prefered and not the other. "The pronunciation shóu commonly occurs with the same meanings and uses as shú."

[bomaci]

Most of us would agree that developing an authentic-sounding accent in a certain language is near-impossible if you don't begin learning it as a child, and that having a good accent is not necessary for being understood.

Actually I don't agree. I think it is very possible to develop a near-native or native accent in a foreign language if you use the right metodology. I have been using the chorus method described elsewhere on this forum (look for the thread called "Near native accents") and it is quite effective.

[Pravit]

Thanks for the insight, djwebb, it's comforting to think that native speakers get these characters wrong sometimes too. I have always wondered about the shu2/shou2 thing, although every person I've talked to pronounces it "shou2".

bomaci: To be honest, I agree with you. I really can't stand it when people start complaining that it's impossible for them to learn X language because they're too old to be learning languages. While I think that some people are more naturally talented at acquiring foreign accents than others, I think some people are downright lazy when it comes to pronouncing foreign languages properly. There are some people I've met who had been in China for YEARS, who could read difficult texts without any problem, but still had not mastered four simple tones. I just don't get how some people are able to read Lu Xun without a dictionary yet still pronounce Pinyin "z" as you would in English or "mo" as "moe." In fact, my biggest gripe with Sinophiles(in academia) is that the majority of them(that I've met) seem to either (1)not even try to pronunce the tones or (2)pronounce them wrong. Why?!

PS: Bomaci, I will look at that thread later, seems very intriguing. Do you know anyone who speaks Chinese with a near-native accent due to that method? If so, any recordings?

Any more input from native speakers?

[Koneko]

Sawadeeka!

What can I say?! I think your Chinese was very impressive, you even picked up 儿 accent and spoke like a real Northerner.

K.

[bomaci]

PS: Bomaci, I will look at that thread later, seems very intriguing. Do you know anyone who speaks Chinese with a near-native accent due to that method? If so, any recordings?

Any more input from native speakers?

I have used the method extensively myself for quite a couple of months to improve my rhythm in mandarin. I am not sure that I speak with a near-native accent, but many chinese people say that my pronounciation is quite good, and I have noticed myself that many of the tone mistakes I used to make are now gone. Why don't you try if yourself and see if it works.

[赫杰]

whoa, pretty freakin good yo...how long u been studying? I got no comments here really about accent corrections, I am definately not in the position to correct anyone if you know what I mean, heh heh. I just wanted to say that your 关系不错儿 at the end of 夜生活 cracked me up! I haven gotten looks here in 武汉 just for saying 没错, i cant imagine the reaction from my roommate if I said something like 不错儿. ai, bei jing fang yan is still a little 逆耳 for me I'm sorry to say...kinda rather listen to wu han hua 晓不晓滴？

great job again!

[skylee]

bei jing fang yan is still a little 逆耳 for me I'm sorry to say

I feel the same.

[Pravit]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

赫杰, I have been studying off and on for about three years, although I did not really begin studying seriously until about a year ago. Last summer I went to Beijing(as you might have guessed) and took a summer course, so I started to imitate the local accent. I'm headed back to China again this summer, but Shaanxi this time, so who knows how my accent will end up...

The weird thing is, I find it much easier to understand when Southern people speak Mandarin. Being able to imitate 儿化 does not necessarily mean you'll understand it all the time...

[bomaci]

PS: Bomaci, I will look at that thread later, seems very intriguing. Do you know anyone who speaks Chinese with a near-native accent due to that method? If so, any recordings?

I am not sure if I speak with a near-native accent but I recorded a short sample of myself speaking chinese anyway. I'll let you decide if it is near-native or not. I didn't prepare any text or anything, just recorded myself saying some sentences in chinese so there is some hesitation on the recording.

sample.mp3

[Koneko]

Excellent!

The 帖 in 帖子 should be 1st tone not 3rd tone.

Well done.

K.

[bomaci]

The 帖 in 帖子 should be 1st tone not 3rd tone.

Are you sure about that. In Wenlin it is listed as 3rd tone. Also attached a recording of a native speaker who seems to disagree with you

tiezi.mp3

[Koneko]

Hmm... Maybe it's a regional variance?!

帖 in 请帖, I read it as 3rd tone.

But 帖 in 帖子 should be 1st tone.

Like 贴 in 张贴 is also 1st tone not 3rd tone.

K.

[anonymoose]

Well done guys! People often compliment me on my pronunciation, but listening to you two is very humbling.