23 years old and about to graduate, work, or study?

[venture160]

I've been kind of torn lately, I am 23, and just about to finish my undergraduate here in the states and have definate plans to return to China for at least 3 years.

I have a few offers from various companies in Beijing and Shanghai, while they pay well, have nice benefits and would be great for building a career or going to grad school later, I still have this inkling to keep on studying, get way out into some second, or third tier city with a small foreign population for a year or so and study Chinese. While it wouldn't do anything immediately to advance my career, do you think it would benefit in the long run? I would really like to increase my fluency in Chinese and knowledge of Chinese culture. Will I be able to do the same at an American company in Beijing? (mind you, almost 80% of the employess would be Chinese) Will I regret it later on and never have a chance to take a break and slip off the earth for a year or two?

Looking forward to hear from people! thanks.

[myann23]

How good is your Mandarin already? If you have taken some courses at college, you should think about hiring a private tutor as it would probably be more time effective (see prevous thread I started).

There's no reason to think that you shouldn't be able to work full-time and study part-time if you already have a grounding in Chinese. Are these companies Chinese companies or multinational companies paying you a western salary? If it is the latter, I'd definitely consider taking the job and learn Mandarin in spare time versus taking more time to do full-time study.

[Ding Yiyi]

What would stop you from slipping off for a year? If you're paid a western salary I'm sure you'll be able to save up enough money after only a short while to pay for an apartment in Harbin or somewhere else. The only thing that will stop you is yourself.

[venture160]

I guess nothing is stopping me. My Chinese is good enough to work in an office speaking entirely in Chinese, reading and writing Chinese business documents, new reports etc. But its still not "quite there" but good enough. I think whats killing me right now is the fact that I am not in China, and learning Chinese becomes SO much more difficult.

[roddy]

What about, finances permitting, one of the intensive joint programs - CET in Harbin for example. You'd get out into a smaller city, make improvements to your Chinese, but (from the the impression I have of the likes of CET and similar) you'd be able to tailor your study to a chosen future career path plus have the advantage of a more recognized course under your belt when it comes to job applications in the future. I

[gato]

I still have this inkling to keep on studying, get way out into some second, or third tier city with a small foreign population for a year or so and study Chinese. While it wouldn't do anything immediately to advance my career, do you think it would benefit in the long run? I would really like to increase my fluency in Chinese and knowledge of Chinese culture. Will I be able to do the same at an American company in Beijing

Traveling to some 2rd/3rd-tier city might help you get your wanderlust out of the way, but I don't think it's necessarily better for improving your Chinese than working in an environment where you need to speak/read/write Chinese (which, I take it, is your other option). Lots of people just want to travel and see more of the world at your age, so that's not a bad option. But I don't think it's relevant to furthering your career.

[bagz007]

If the job is even halfway decent pay-wise and does not involve teaching English, I would jump on it in a heartbeat over doing an intensive Chinese program. Any dufus (and I was one of them) can plunk down a huge wad of money to go study Chinese all day...get some professional experience and advance your Chinese on the go, in a real working environment. This is in China, right? Why go there to sit in a classroom all day? Not sure what you're looking to do long term, but I gotta think most employers and people in general are going to be more impressed seeing you work over there...

[flameproof]

My Chinese is good enough to work in an office speaking entirely in Chinese, reading and writing Chinese business documents, new reports etc.

Then why study further? Take the money and learn on the job. University study is too theoretical anyway.

You should consider to look at (what you think is) your weakness and work on that yourself. A prefabricated class has the risk that you either know it, or you are not interested in the topic.

PS: I think business knowledge brings in the money, not Chinese knowledge. That's only the icing on the cake.

[Jonny Wang]

For what it's worth, here's what I experienced personally: I came to China with no Chinese language ability and entered a study-program full-time for one academic year. After that time, I had covered the basics, and was maybe starting to approach intermediate level of speaking (maybe). At that time, the summer after my first year of study, I took a full-time internship with an American company here, to start getting some business experience.

The great thing about that was that all of my colleagues, except for my American boss, were Chinese who don't speak English, so I had no choice but to communicate in Chinese, as bad as my skills were. I had a headache every evening for the first couple of weeks, but over the first few months on the job, my speaking fluency increased dramatically. So much so that when the next fall semester started, instead of returning to school, I continued working. I arranged with my boss to work "half-time" and study "half-time" with a private tutor. I felt that this was better for my language learning than full-time school.

The bad part of this is that work is *never* part time (at least not in business). It grows to fill whatever time is available. So, while I continued my studies part-time, the speed was really slow and now, several years later, I'm still have the desire and need to keep studying. I feel myself limited in my vocabulary in areas outside of my profession, making it tough to talk about things I had hoped I'd be able to talk about by now.

So, to summarize:

1. Work can be good for your Chinese in that it will increase your speaking fluency and improve your vocabulary in the area of your profession...*IF* your colleagues allow/force you to speak Chinese. The problem with working with an American/foreign company is that many of your colleagues will probably be very eager to use their English, especially since most of your other foreign colleagues probably won't have good Chineses. I was blessed to work for a company that didn't have English speakers on staff.

2. Work *will* slow your language learning progress in areas outside of your profession. Try as you might, it will be very difficult to have the time or energy to study non-work-related Chinese after long days at the office. And the attitude of many foreign employers is: we're paying you a big heap of money to work in China, plus China sucks anway, so why don't you just spend 80 hrs a week at the office? Seriously.

So my suggestion to you is: if you are only interested in strengthening your fluency in speaking the words you already know and developing depth of language knowledge in your chosen profession, go ahead and start to work, but with a company where you can actually use your Chinese.

If you want more breadth in language knowledge, consider studying more before you start working.

Apart from the langauge aspects, there are the "fun" aspects. I've found that working has limited my ability time-wise to travel to more fun places in China that I would love to go to. It's the old "time but no money" vs. "money but no time paradox," perhaps

[novemberfog]

I'd also like to add that you should do your best to find out the TRUE office culture of the company you might enter. International companies in Asia are notorious for the long hours (but with a really nice paycheck and bonus). I had a friend working in Beijing with a big multinational company and she worked 6 days a week from 8 AM to 10 PM daily. The good thing is that it looks great on her resume and she was able to bank a lot of money. The bad thing is that she didn't have time for her life, and after three years she burnt out and quit. She had enough money to enjoy two relaxing years in a grad school without needing to work. So just find out as much as you can about the corporate culture of the office you might enter and weigh that information into your decision as well.

[venture160]

wow, thanks everyone for the great responses!

I know how frustrating it can be sometimes when your Chinese colleagues just simply refuse to talk to you in Chinese. Last summer I interned at a small US consulting firm in Beijing, there were only 5 people in the office, so the there was very little competition among the co-workers, thus no real drive to go out there and improve your english, so I was able to speak Chinese everday.

Then last fall I interned at a MUCH MUCH larger international outfit in Beijing, and the competition was fairly fierce, while some of my co-workers didn't mind speaking Chinese with me at all, there were always one or two people who no matter how good their english was,refused to speak a SINGLE word of chinese with me. I think part of this may have been due to the fact that I was the intern. I don't like to brag , but I thought in most cases my Chinese ability was much stronger than their english, even though it was an international outfit, when non-english speakers weren't present (my boss was a taiwanese american, and the other two expat's spoke close to fluent Chinese, both had years of experience in China) everything was conducted in Chinese, simply because if we switched to english, our Chinese colleagues could not keep up.

Well, the places I could be working at would most certainly include long hours. My choices are a mix of legal and consulting work, both of those industries are notorious for long hours.

Here's the question, would 30-40k a year plus bonus be worth back breaking hours in a chaoyang office?

[bianfuxia]

Take the job. Do it for a few years. Get experience (and save cash).

Then, take a career break. You'll have a better idea of what you want to do with the time.

I'm 34 and about to end a 2 year career break. I took it after 8 years as a lawyer, when the alternative was promotion. Now I'm negotiating a few different job offers and am SO GLAD I took the last 2 years off to travel and be in China. It slowed down my climb up the "ladder" but because I have the 8 years behind me, it's turning out to be easy enough to slot back in. After about 3 years in, I took a year off to do my masters. Also no problem getting work again afterwards.

Your career will always be there for you once you start it. Those first 3 or 4 years of experience are crucial to later career development. Much better to use them that way, than deferring the start of your career by 2 years.

You just have to be true to yourself when the time comes. Many people around me when I was leaving were like "I'd love to, but there's the kids/mortgage/next promotion...".

Get the ball rolling - it'll expand your options over the long run.

[venture160]

“Get the ball rolling - it'll expand your options over the long run.”

well, put, I think you sold me on that one.

[Shadowdh]

And if you take the job option then whats to stop you taking holidays (if youre able) and just sinking into the language for 2 weeks or so at a time... this might be a sort of compromise... I would probably vote Job... but then I am envious that you are able to have that option... good luck with your future which ever way it goes mate...

[bagz007]

If the organization is legit and you can be confident that your paycheck will arrive on time, take it in a heartbeat. That's damn good pay in China for a young punk. From there you can go places down the road or look at business/law school back in the states after a few years, when you'll have solid China creds...