Northern slangs used in Guangzhou newspaper

[Ian_Lee]

Now many natives in Guangzhou complain that their newspapers are polluted by northern slangs like 猫腻, 忽悠, 扎堆,.....etc.

The reason why such northern slangs are used is because many editors of these Guangzhou newspapers are non-Cantonese.

And maybe Quest would know...I wonder how come people in Guangzhou call the northerners 捞头?

[studentyoung]

I wonder how come people in Guangzhou call the northerners 捞头?

First of all, I would like to say that calling a northerner “捞头” is very rule and impolite. Northerners usually call strangers “老兄” in their daily life, so some Cantonese call northerners “捞松” in Cantonese. “头” here means “guy” but it has some derogatory meaning. You might hear words like “寿头guy / Jack”, “猪头/ foolish guy”. Both “寿头” and “猪头” are bad language. Of course, you can often hear “死人头”, when you are listening to a quarrel. Now, you understand what is “捞头”, right?

I would like to point out again that calling a northerner “捞头”, “捞松” or “捞妹” is very rule and impolite. Since more and more northerners settle down in Guangzhou and become “新广州人”, I hope all these insult words can be sunk in the sea of history forever.

Thanks!

[Quest]

Since more and more northerners settle down in Guangzhou and become “新广州人”, I hope all these insult words can be sunk in the sea of history forever.

I hope they stop coming, it's invasion. Maybe Hong Kong media should expand to Guangzhou and save Guangzhou...

They are also called 捞佬，捞B... I believe all of them came from 老兄.

[Ian_Lee]

Actually the term "捞松" was commonly used in Hong Kong during the '50s and '60s when hundreds of thousands refugees from Shanghai and other parts of Jiangsu settled in Hong Kong.

But now hardly anybody remembers this term.

After they learnt Cantonese and spoke Cantonese with the locals, then they are not 捞松 anymore.

If the northern immigrants in Guangzhou refuse to pick up Cantonese, then I don't see how they can be called 新广州人!

[studentyoung]

I hope they stop coming, it's invasion.

Hahahahahahahahaha! Why do you live and work in U.S.? Don’t you think that it is also “invasion”? Hahahahahahahahaha!

If the northern immigrants in Guangzhou refuse to pick up Cantonese, then I don't see how they can be called 新广州人!

Ah, yes, you are right that most of northern immigrants in Guangzhou do pick up Cantonese, though not all of them can master it very well. Most of them even learn to boil herbal soup (老火靓汤)，enjoy morning / evening tea (喝早茶/夜茶)，and walk around flower market on the eve of Spring Festival, etc. They try to learn the local traditions step by step, while living and working in Guangzhou. And I think it is why local Cantonese call them “新广州人”.

OK, let’s go back to the topic. I am not surprised that the Northern slang words used in Guangzhou newspaper. It is one of the phenomena of cultural fusion, and it helps us to understand more on northern people and their culture.

Thanks!

[Quest]

Hahahahahahahahaha! Why do you live and work in U.S.? Don’t you think that it is also “invasion”? Hahahahahahahahaha!

I am sure people would cry foul when the likes of me surpass the original population.

So, studentyoung, are you a 旧广州人 or 新广州人？

[studentyoung]

I am sure people would cry foul when the likes of me surpass the original population.

Well, please calm down, Quest. At least, I don’t want to cry foul (and I have no right to do so), though I know the likes of you surpass the original population.

So, studentyoung, are you a 旧广州人 or 新广州人？

Do you mean you want to know whether I am an “invader” or not, right? Hmm, it is really a bit out of the topic. Please p.m. me your e-mail address, if you are still so interested, OK?

Anyway, happy lunar new year, Quest!

Thanks!

[Quest]

Well, please calm down, Quest.

I couldn't be any calmer.... in case you forgot, I didn't type the hahaha's.

Ian_lee, using slangs in newspaper is nothing compared to:

http://www.ycwb.com/gb/content/2002-05/05/content_355094.htm

studentyoung, 入乡随俗是一种礼貌，是文明的表现。当外来人反客为主，这不是侵略是什么？

[studentyoung]

studentyoung, 入乡随俗是一种礼貌，是文明的表现。

Yes, you are quite right that it is polite to do what the Romans do when I am in Rome. But another clear fact is that cultural fusion is an unavoidable trend. You might understand more on “foreign words / loanwords外来词” if you had some knowledge on lexicology. What’s more, if you agree that the need of communicating with people from other places in China, you might understand that how important Putonghua is. Please don’t forget that if we want to let more others understand Guangzhou and promote Guangzhou as a traveling city more effectively, we should first use some language they understand to communicate with them, right? It is also a polite behavior to speak Putonghua in Guangzhou to those northern people, so that they can feel at ease and have a good impression of Guangzhou.

Since you mention “入乡随俗”, I would like to tell you that it depends on the condition. When my cousin went to visit his college roommate in Hunan Province, the guy’s parents prepared some food without any chilly, for they knew that my cousin was from Guangzhou and might not like chilly. Do you mean the guy’s parents or my cousin did some thing impolite? Don’t you think that making new comers to Guangzhou feel at ease is also counted as a polite behavior? If you went to Guangzhou with your friend who knows nothing about Cantonese, would you keep speaking in Cantonese and neglect how your friend might feel? "自恋方言非大度", right?

当外来人反客为主，这不是侵略是什么？

Guangzhou is a rather open city, and Guangzhou belongs to not only local Cantonese people but also all other Chinese people in China. I wonder if you could explain what you mean “ 侵略invasion” in your sentence ? Do you mean that Guangzhou is not a city of China, but an independent country? What’s more, when Cantonese slang words like “埋单”, “靓仔”, “有型有款”,“打的” etc appear in northerners’ daily life, do you mean it is “invasion”?

In fact, there are some many foreign words in Cantonese, borrowed from English. For example, “的士” is “taxi”, “士多” is “store”, and “沙发” is “sofa”, etc. And now almost 200,000 foreigners live and work in Guangzhou. Do you mean it is “invasion”, too?

Thanks!

[wannabeafreak]

Being in Guangzhou for the last few days, I can safely say that Putonghua has completely taken over Cantonese. Sad but true... Seems that there are more notherners in Guangzhou than the locals.

At all toll-booths, the attendant will speak Putonghua only, nearly all security guards are Northerners and there is a mighty lot of people wearing wrinkled cheap suits squatting on the side of the roads at all hours of the day.

I believe its an invasion, you can spot a non-local from a mile a way. At least everyone spoke Cantonese to me

[wushijiao]

Being in Guangzhou for the last few days, I can safely say that Putonghua has completely taken over Cantonese. Sad but true... Seems that there are more notherners in Guangzhou than the locals.

Just wondering, to what degree is that due to the education system and the media, which are both in Putonghua?

Also, I think it is important to keep in mind that cities like Guangzhou got special treatment under the CCP, often times using money from farmers who were legally barred from entering the city. Then they could enter the city and were exploited in sweatshops and the like. Or even killed by the Guangzhou police.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2003/Jul/69295.htm

I think the term "invasion" is fairly insulting and rude term to describe other Chinese people (not that it is any of my business, I guess).

[Ncao]

Just wondering, to what degree is that due to the education system and the media, which are both in Putonghua?

Actually unlike other Chinese cities Guangzhou really has no restrictions on dialects in the media. There are many television and radio programs in Cantonese.

[atitarev]

Many foreign words penetrated Mandarin via Cantonese, so it's a two-way street.

These words and many more sound much closer to the original in Cantonese than in Mandarin:

Jiānádà, Ruìdiǎn, Ruìshì

[Quest]

But another clear fact is that cultural fusion is an unavoidable trend.

It's not unavoidable, it's being promoted.

studentyoung, the examples you gave, those were passive absorptions. Constant migration is active invasion. They are different. I think I have a good sense of what kind of Guangzhouren you are.

wannabeafreak, which part of the city did you go to? there's a trend for the locals to move to the suburbs just to get away from the filth, but then if you look carefully, I think you can still find lots of Guangzhouren around the city.

[Ian_Lee]

I have no qualm against learning Putonghua.

But the problem is those locals who speak imperfect Putonghua in Guangzhou are stigmatized by the newspapers (probably seated with non-Cantonese editor) as 不文明 (uncivilized).

Well, I only consider those behaviors like spitting, throwing rubbish, jumping queue,....etc as uncivilized behavior (I would say the northerners are in a bigger proportion to engage in such activities) while unable to speak fluent Putonghua can at most be described as "un-nationalistic".

Anyway, why do Putonghua speakers think that the "落车" sign in Guangzhou is incorrect and should be "下车"? 落车 should be readily comprehensible to them after a second guess. The difference is as trivial as between "To rent" and "To let".

[Quest]

I think the term "invasion" is fairly insulting and rude term to describe other Chinese people (not that it is any of my business, I guess).

I think calling it invasion is very reasonable. If nothing's done, it won't be long before the local culture and language completely disappear... it's worse than invasion, it's a war you can't fight. And, who are they to call non-mandarin speakers uncivilized ? colonial overlords? Beijing's 官僚主义 can rot in hell...

take America, for example, I am sure many Americans would be upset if Latino Americans took over and changed the national langauge to Spanish and "forced" everyone to speak Spanish.

[studentyoung]

I think I have a good sense of what kind of Guangzhouren you are.

唔好"I think"啦。实际D，唔该快D叫FBI黎查我啦，我话埋俾你知，我地家族o既族谱就放左系我屋企o既二楼咋! ~ ~　我宜家真系好惊惊啊~　～！惊住你叫唔郁D FBI，叫呢度D派出所o既阿 Sir 黎查啦！Please don't just "I think". Please call for FBI to investigate me. I can tell you that my family record book is placed on the second flood of my house. I am so scared ~ ~! I am afraid that you can’t call for any FBI, so just call for a local police at a local police station to investigate me. )

Constant migration is active invasion.

Good point! Quest, why did you immigrate to U.S? I am sure that you won’t forget that “constant migration is active invasion”, right?

take America, for example, I am sure many Americans would be upset if Latino Americans took over and changed the national langauge to Spanish and "forced" everyone to speak Spanish.

Take Guangzhou as an example, the national language is still Putonghua. I have to remind you again, Quest, Guangzhou is a city of China, not an independent country! But Cantonese is still very active in people’s daily life. I, as being a Cantonese, speak in Cantonese everyday.

Actually unlike other Chinese cities Guangzhou really has no restrictions on dialects in the media. There are many television and radio programs in Cantonese.

Yes, Ncao is right. 珠江台、广州电视台、南方电视台 have numerous Cantonese TV programs for both local Cantonese people to enjoy and northerners to learn Cantonese. What’s more, there are so many radio stations broadcast in Cantonese, like 城市之声，FM96.7金曲频道, 羊城交通台.

In fact, Guangzhou Daily广州日报 is the most impactive and biggest 机关党报 in Guangzhou. You can still find that Cantonese is even taught on it.

http://gzdaily.dayoo.com/html/2007-02/19/content_22878938.htm 流嘢

If you input “饶原生”or "阿叻同阿靓" in the blank of “搜索”, you can get more Cantonese material.

Being in Guangzhou for the last few days, I can safely say that Putonghua has completely taken over Cantonese. Sad but true... Seems that there are more notherners in Guangzhou than the locals.

Being a Cantonese in Guangzhou for all my life (so far), I can safely say that Putonghua has not yet completely taken over Cantonese. But Cantonese now can master Putonghua better than they were twenty years ago.

Thanks!

[HashiriKata]

take America, for example, I am sure many Americans would be upset if Latino Americans took over and changed the national langauge to Spanish and "forced" everyone to speak Spanish.

Quest, should I remind you that America, by your definition, belongs to the "Red Indians" ? No need yet to mention Spanish speakers taking over, should we first drive all English speakers out of this continent?

I can definitely understand your feelings about Guangzhou being flooded with Northerners but what do you propose to do? Setting up barbed-wire barriers all around Guangzhou and stop all movement of Chinese people within China? Or perhaps calling for Guangzhou's independence by inviting outside forces to come in to occupy China and keep Northerners at bay ?

[gato]

Most of the new immigrants to Guangzhou aren't "Northerners" per se, but are from Hunan, Sichuan, Jiangxi, and Guangxi, the southern provinces that surround Guangdong. This may not add anything to the debate, but take it as a factual correction, if you will.

See this article:

http://news.sohu.com/20070209/n248149046.shtml

善待农民工 广州副市长称市民不怕外来工抢饭碗

2007年02月09日13:56

　苏泽群介绍，广州1100万常住人口中，就有360多万外来人口，纳入各级劳动保障部门登记就业的达160.65万人(不含中央、部队驻粤及省直属用人单位)，总量较去年末的147.36万增长9.0%。其中外来农民工为138.25万人，占总量的86.05%，主要来自湖南、四川、江西、广西等省份。

Rough translation: Among the 11 million Guangzhou residents, 3.6 million are immigrants, 1.38 million of whom are migrant workers from rural areas, mainly from Hunan, Sichuan, Jiangxi, Guangxi, and other provinces.

[atitarev]

I didn't know much about disagreements between Cantonese and Mandarin speakers (read: any Chinese, not speaking Cantonese) but I also read Sheik's Cantonese forum where Cantonese speakers in Canada vent their spleen about being flooded by "Mandarin speaking freeloaders" and hanging out with them in Chinatowns instead of mixing with Filipinos, Punjabs, etc. Ridiculous:-?

What's the reason for such interdialectal racism? Is this limited to Cantonese vs Mandarin?

I won't quote anything but here's the link:

http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/phorum/read.php?1,63335,page=1