Czech Cara Posted March 2, 2007 at 09:40 AM Report Posted March 2, 2007 at 09:40 AM Grammar point, is it that 将 can be used instead of 把 in the object- preposed sentences? Or how would you interpret '公司一般將貴重材料(价格較高的)定義為A類料...' ? or is it still a verb meaning shall? Is it region specific? Quote
HashiriKata Posted March 2, 2007 at 10:19 AM Report Posted March 2, 2007 at 10:19 AM Yes, I think 将 is used instead of 把 in this sentence. It's a more elevated way (书面) of speaking, and is not regional. Quote
gougou Posted March 2, 2007 at 12:12 PM Report Posted March 2, 2007 at 12:12 PM In some cases you will also find 就 in this usage. Quote
skylee Posted March 2, 2007 at 01:02 PM Report Posted March 2, 2007 at 01:02 PM In some cases you will also find 就 in this usage. How? Quote
gougou Posted March 3, 2007 at 05:48 AM Report Posted March 3, 2007 at 05:48 AM With verbs like 进行, e.g. 就一件事情进行调查。 Quote
HashiriKata Posted March 3, 2007 at 09:04 AM Report Posted March 3, 2007 at 09:04 AM With verbs like 进行, e.g. 就一件事情进行调查。I don't think that is it, gougou! (In your sentence, the object of the verb is 调查, and not 事情 as one would normally expect in the 把 construction. Some more examples?) Quote
skylee Posted March 3, 2007 at 09:50 AM Report Posted March 3, 2007 at 09:50 AM I agree with HashiriKata. Quote
Koneko Posted March 3, 2007 at 11:01 AM Report Posted March 3, 2007 at 11:01 AM Aren't both 将 and 把 future tense indicators in Chinese? K. Quote
imron Posted March 3, 2007 at 12:32 PM Report Posted March 3, 2007 at 12:32 PM With verbs like 进行, e.g. 就一件事情进行调查。I think it's better to think of 就 as 对 in these cases. Quote
HashiriKata Posted March 3, 2007 at 01:37 PM Report Posted March 3, 2007 at 01:37 PM I think it's better to think of 就 as 对 in these cases. The 就 as used here means "take (advantage of something) as an excuse or a starting point (for doing something else)", so "就一件事情进行调查" roughly means "using some fact to start an investigation". Aren't both 将 and 把 future tense indicators in Chinese?将 in some usage indicates a future action but 把 doesn't have anything to do with this function.(Welcome back Koneko. I was just about to report your sudden disappearance to the police! ) Quote
imron Posted March 3, 2007 at 03:10 PM Report Posted March 3, 2007 at 03:10 PM so "就一件事情进行调查" roughly means "using some fact to start an investigation".I would have read that phrase slightly differently, namely: to perform an investigation about a given event/situation.From 现代汉语词典, one of the definitions of 就 lists: 就:(介词)表示动作的对象或范围, with the example it gives being: 他们就这个问题进行了讨论. So for the first example, the action is 进行调查, with the target/scope of that action being 一件事情. Quote
HashiriKata Posted March 3, 2007 at 03:58 PM Report Posted March 3, 2007 at 03:58 PM I would have read that phrase slightly differently, namely: to perform an investigation about a given event/situation.I think you're absolutely right but my interpretation was not necessarily wrong. The following example leans indeed quite strongly towards my interpretation: 我就这个机会同大家谈谈So, I guess that this use of 就 applies perhaps more widely than we first thought. Quote
Gulao Posted March 4, 2007 at 09:27 PM Report Posted March 4, 2007 at 09:27 PM Grammar point, is it that 将 can be used instead of 把 in the object- preposed sentences? Or how would you interpret '公司一般將貴重材料(价格較高的)定義為A類料...' ? or is it still a verb meaning shall? In 书面语, 将 is the equivalent of 把, at least for sentences like this. It can still mean "shall," but the sentences where it takes that meaning are different, syntactically. Quote
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