PhD in China

[spambolimbo]

Hi all,

I've recently got it into my head to pursue a PhD in science, in one of the main Chinese universities. I have a lot of things to do before this can become a reality, but my post here specifically concerns learning Mandarin.

After doing some checking and emailing, it seems many universities require a HSK level 6, or higher, to enter. Some unis are willing to discard this requirement, provided that there are no barriers in communication with the thesis supervisor. Regardless, I need to learn Mandarin and so am wondering what it takes to get to level 6 proficiency. I've spoken to a Chinese friend and checked various websites, and what I understand so far, is that I should master 4000-5000 words, and approximately 2000 characters. That's useful information, but I'm interested in hearing personal experiences.

Is there anyone here willing to tell me how hard it was to go from complete beginner to HSK level-6 proficiency, or higher? I'd like to know how many years it took and how much time you invested on a daily/weekly basis. The type of study materials/techniques you used would also be helpful. I currently have a number of different books/CD's and am looking into joining some language classes at the local university. I have enough spare time at the moment to fit about 2 hours of solid Mandarin learning into each day.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[dan ni er]

To be perfectly frank, I think if you're expecting to go from being a complete beginner to being able to pursue a Phd in Science using Chinese, I think you are looking at living in China for at least 6 years, including 2 to 3 years of full time Chinese study. Chinese is a bloody hard language, it will require a lot of sacrifice to be able to get to that level.

I have been learning Chinese for 4 years, have a Chinese gf which I only really talk to using Chinese but couldn't even contemplate doing a degree in Chinese and I still consider my Chinese to be good.

[gato]

我想学英文，大概要学多久能去美国念PhD呀？

[kdavid]

I reckon I agree with dan on the length of time required to get from beginner to that level (with full-time study--no slacking off).

Not to put this idea down, but have you considered why getting a PhD in China would be better than a PhD in a western university? I myself have considered doing an MA degree in Chinese litearture down the road, but that would mainly be something to put on a cover letter for a grad application to a school back home in the States.

From I understand, Chinese universities aren't the best on paper, as once you jump through the admission hoops, you're pretty much guaranteed the degree. I think a degree from a western university would be much better looking on paper in terms of job prospects.

So, perhaps my key question is: why study here and not in the west?

[HashiriKata]

The normal length of time required to acquire the language may be quite disheartening but the following is the practice that I know in Japan (whose language is no easier than Chinese):

For PhD research in science, if you're accepted by a university (practically means there's someone who agrees to supervise you), you'll be sent to a language school for a year or so to learn the basics of the language and then start your research proper in your 2nd year in that country (you can keep going to language classes along with doing your research, if you wish). You can during your study communicate with your supervisor through English or the local language and in either, you shouldn't have much problem because the level required tend to be quite basic. Your papers & thesis will be no doubt in English, and the majority (if not all) of your reading materials will be in English also.

This is a common practice in Japan, and I believe the practice in China won't be much different. Also, if your home university has some connection with universities in China and knows their way in China, you'll find the whole applying procedure becomes much easier, as it's in the interest of the host university to have international research students and to have theses supervised by their staff written in English.

[spambolimbo]

Appreciate the responses

To clarify: I don't intend on doing a PhD through Chinese. I am aware that this would be very hard! It's just that, for some of the universities, the application requirements state that a HSK certificate is needed. I may be able to get an exemption from this - I'm still waiting on a response from the universities. It's early days yet, so I'm not too bothered.

Regardless, I'm interested in having a passable level of Mandarin before I go, and I thought that HSK-6 proficiency would be a good target.

kdavid,

I agree that, in general, western universities are looked upon more favourably - particularly universities in the U.S. That said, there are a number of excellent universities in China: Tsinghua and Peking University would be the best examples.

[anonymoose]

I agree that, in general, western universities are looked upon more favourably - particularly universities in the U.S. That said, there are a number of excellent universities in China: Tsinghua and Peking University would be the best examples.

True, but how many people outside of China have heard of Tsinghua and Peking University, and know anything about them?

[kdavid]

Quote:

I agree that, in general, western universities are looked upon more favourably - particularly universities in the U.S. That said, there are a number of excellent universities in China: Tsinghua and Peking University would be the best examples.

True, but how many people outside of China have heard of Tsinghua and Peking University, and know anything about them?

Yeah, Chinese universities aren't generally looked upon as others such as Cambridge, Harvard, Columbia, etc etc.

I mean, if you're set on studying here, you're into Chinese culture and language, and you really want to dive right in, I think you're on the right track.

However, was is your long term job prospectus? What do you want to do AFTER you get your PhD? Even if you want to stay in China, a degree from the outside would be more favorable. (Though, from what I understand, the best scientists are in other countries, i.e. Singapore for stem cell research.)

What is your long-term goal?

[kudra]

Although you haven't talked about your goals, I honestly don't understand why you would want to do this.

If you are talking about getting a PhD in science, I would think you should be devoting all your time to the science. If it's a question of not being sure what exactly you want to do in science, and you have some interest in learning Chinese to the point of fluency, then take a year off and learn Chinese, live in China or Taiwan, and do that. You can still use the internet to keep up with your field of interest, get specific on what you want to work on in grad school and apply from abroad. If it turns out keeping up while abroad is a chore and you lose interest, then that also tells you something.

Grad school should be so much work that you shouldn't want to deal with learning a new language if you don't have to.

The other thing is that in grad school you want to start the whole process of meeting people, going to conferences, hearing talks by visiting scientists from other universities at your home institution where you are in grad school. It would seem that there are just so much more opportunities for that in the US. Surf around and look at the weekly seminar schedules at various departments. Typically a (physics) departments research grant will have allocated funds to fly in people to give seminars on the latest work. I assume this will be true in other fields. So it's no big deal for someone from MIT to fly out to California (or anywhere else in the US). It just seems that with only a handful of top departments in China, you will be limiting your exposure to this important aspect of grad school. Granted I have been out of academic physics for more than a decade. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Scoobyqueen]

Is your post serious?

The phrase I have "recently" "got it into my head" to do a PhD?

At many Western Universities, that opening line would lead to a rejection because of the wrong attitude.

Undertaking a PhD requires a dedicated attitude and is not just the result of a "recent" idea or fad. It takes around 3-4 years of hard work and is usually associated with a life-long career in the field of study. A demonstrable passion for the subject is usually also a requirement.

As for doing it in China, I am wondering if this is also the result of a recent idea.

Speaking from my own experience, I knew I wanted to do a PhD whilst being an undergrad and therefore had four years of preparation. I did my PhD in another country than my native, because of the reputation of the university. I had already completed the undergraduate studies in that country. The thesis was in a the local language but no concessions were made for lack of fluency. I needed five years to reach the native linguistic level of my intellectual peers.

[BrandeX]

OR...

do your PhD in a chinese university in any field with an entirely english curriculum instead?

Just one example....

Harbin Institute of Technology

Yes it's "dirt cheap" as PhD's go. Will it be recognized by your future employer or such outside China? Who knows? It IS a real uni and real degree, not like you just printed it out on a computer, but I can't attest to the quality of said education, and others might be skeptical also. Chinese PhD's are no doubt sufficient for large masses of locals though, so it could be very well good enough for you as well.