Spot the difference: 賬號 and 帳號?

[rose~]

After the discussion here about whether 褪色 should be pronounced "tui4 se4", "tui4 shai3", "tun4 se4" or "tun4 shai3", I found the following questions online which someone asked about the difference between 褪色 and 退色. Then I realised I had never really paid attention to whether I am typing 賬號 or 帳號, and especially 其它 and 其他, which is such a common word. So I'd like to “[pop=get/gǎo]搞[/pop][pop=clear/qīngchu]清楚[/pop]" the differences between them.

So what are the differences between the following please:

褪色 and 退色，

賬號 (账号) and 帳號 (帐号)，

其它 and 其他？

[HashiriKata]

Ok, let me make a fool of myself:

褪色 and 退色: These are broadly speaking equivalent variants. I'd go even as far as saying that both pronunciations, "tui4 se4" and "tui4 shai3", can be applied to either of the above character pairs. Someone with more knowledge will tell you about "tun4 se4" or "tun4 shai3", but my impression is they are not/ no longer used.

賬號 (账号) and 帳號 (帐号): The 2nd option seems to be the standard but you also see the 1st as a variation (The reverse can also be said if you look up a different dictionary!).

其它 and 其他: Both mean the same, but careful writers may like to use 其它 for things and 其他 for people.

[skylee]

I tend to agree with HashiriKata, except that personally I don't use 其它 at all.

[shibo77]

The strict definition:

褪色 applies only to clothing, while 退色 is more general, for example the fading of the colour of old photographs. The pronunciations "shǎi" and word-final "shǎr" are colloquial and probably regional as well. The standard pronunciation is "sè".

账 applies to monetary vocabulary (账户、账单); 帐 applies to vocabulary related to cloth (蚊帐、帐篷).

账号 is the correct choice, 帐号 is incorrect, however it is a very common mistake to use 帐号. Originally it was decided that because 帐 covers a broader range of definitions, both the traditional characters 賬 and 帳 would be simplified to 帐, but this was abandoned to include both simplified characters 账 and 帐. «现代汉语词典» recommends 账号 while specifying 帐号 as a common variant. But dictionaries from Taiwan seem to only include 帳號 but not 賬號. However the character 帳 is listed as a variant of the character 賬, just not the word 賬號...

其他 is the only correct choice used in older literature, 其佗 was a variant. It is a disyllabic word and it couldn't be separated. However around the 1890's/1900's people separated the words into two and replaced the 他/佗 with 它 and also 她, forming 其它 and 其她. On the mainland at least, 其她 has fallen out of use, but 其它 is commonly used in relation to events, and non-human animate or inanimate objects. «现代汉语词典» recommends sole usage of 其他.

-Shìbó

[skylee]

账号 is the correct choice, 帐号 is incorrect, however it is a very common mistake to use 帐号. Originally it was decided that because 帐 covers a broader range of definitions, both the traditional characters 賬 and 帳 would be simplified to 帐, but this was abandoned to include both simplified characters 账 and 帐. «现代汉语词典» recommends 账号 while specifying 帐号 as a common variant. But dictionaries from Taiwan seem to only include 帳號 but not 賬號. However the character 帳 is listed as a variant of the character 賬, just not the word 賬號...

The "帐号 is incorrect" statement is not in line with what follows.

About 帳, My Longman dictionary says - "同“賬”". And for 賬, my dictionary says "也作 “帳”". I think a good rule of thumb is to follow the radical. If you are talking about something that has to do with money, use 賬. If it has to do with cloth/cover, then use 帳.

[duaaagiii]

I treat 賬 as an unnecessary variant of 帳 for the following reasons:

1. 
   
2. 賬 does not appear at all in 康熙字典 (The Kangxi Dictionary, "the standard dictionary during the 18th and 19th centuries" [Wikipedia]), but 帳 does and has 計簿 listed as one of its definitions.
   
3. The Dictionary of Mandarin, published by the Ministry of Education of Taiwan, indicates:
   「帳」與「賬」於金錢、債務的意思可以通用。帳本帳幕、帳蓬義，根據《通俗編‧貨財》所云，因為運籌必在幃幄中，所以計簿的意思也作「帳」。「賬」字後出，作為錢、債的專用字。今法律統一用語規定「帳目」、「帳務」統一用「帳」字。標準字　體表二字兼收，以示用法有別。
   
4. Compilation of Folk Sayings 《通俗編．貨財》 (mid-late 1700s):
   幃幄曰「帳」，而計簿亦曰「帳」者，運籌必在幃幄中也。今市井或造「賬」字用之，諸字書中皆未見。
   
   Rough translation of the second sentence: "Currently, 賬 is a character created in the streets, but this character does not appear in any dictionaries."
   

Hence, the 賬 character was created "in the streets", probably due to lack of education. Sometimes you'll see people do this: they'll make up their own characters based on what they think it should be. One example: 包 appears as 饱 on many restaurant menus in China because "food items naturally have a food radical".

[HashiriKata]

Hence, the 賬 character was created "in the streets", probably due to lack of education. Sometimes you'll see people do this: they'll make up their own characters based on what they think it should be. One example: 包 appears as 饱 on many restaurant menus in China because "food items naturally have a food radical".

But don't you think this is the way all natural languages have come about?

[Koneko]

楼主:

总上所诉，公说公有理，婆说婆有理。

你觉得谁最有理呢？

你所举的同声异体字例子，我都有使用。

难的糊涂，何必搞太清楚呢？水太清则无鱼啊！

K.