Going to China for a year, and in need of suggestions

[Peeter]

I'm new in these forums, so nihao!

I have joined a YFU program to study in China for a year. I will be studying in a Chinese high school and my goals are to learn the language, find out about the beautiful culture and generally make many friends and be a cheerful bloke.

The program begins with a month of studying the language (Mandarin Chinese, which I'll study beforehand also) and culture near/in Beijing. Then the rest 9 months of the program begin: going to school, integrating into the host family and such.

However, I get to decide where in China I would like to live in. An early list of options looks as follows: Beijing, Shanghai, Nanjing, Tianjin, Shenyang and Shenzhen.

I'd love it if someone who has lived in any of those cities or has otherwise extensive knowledge about them would tell me what I'd find in them. Suggestions and ideas, however vague, would be much appreciated!

Looking for some info about the given cities in Wikipedia.org, god bless the site, I have for now mentally ruled out Nanjing, Tianjin and Shenyang, since they didn't seem as impressive as the other three. My own knowledge is non-existant though, so correct me if I'm wrong!

Two Chinese people I've spoken to, suggested I'd take Beijing, because I'm most likely to get the best and most precise impression on the richness of Chinese culture there. One of them also said that I'll definitely most likely hear "proper" non-dialect Chinese in Beijing (added that he can't understand anything Shanghai locals say!). Nevertheless, since I'll spend a month in Beijing this way or another, I'm very much interested in the other opportunities also.

So basically, at the moment, Shanghai and Shenzhen interest me the most. Shanghai due to being an internationally renowned and financially powerful city. Shenzhen because it's sooo hot-hot-hot and it's just next to Hong Kong, which sounds great, I guess.

Well, as I wrote before, my knowledge is limited to what I just read from the Internet, so any suggestions are absolutely welcome.

Regards,

Peeter-Paul

[yulu1]

I'll recommend Beijing to you first, not only because it reflects the richness of China, but also for its abundance.You can see diffrent levels of people here, from so-called elite to common people, even the still poor people, meanwhile, in Beijing you'll appreciate Chinese culture, history and modernization best,you can understand the society.

Nanjing is also a nice city for you, which once was the capital city for several dynasties, my friend there told me that living in Naning is comfortble, though I have't been there till now.

Tianjin also had some glories in its history, but its modernization is not that good, which makes it seems much like a town, not a big city, but its food and snacks is really good, deserving a try, a traditional city. Since it's near Beijing, you can visit in weekend, taking a train between Beijing and Tianjing is very convenient and time-saving.

Shenyang is a good city in northeast China, living there is more like a common people in Northeast China, I don't think its character is that vivid.Anyway, just personal opinions.

[simonlaing]

Hey,

I had a couple of friends who studied in a Chinese Highschool. Most of them didn't have such a good time while I was living in Nanjing.

2 years ago there were 2 swiss and 1 german, they were able to go to a highschool in the city which enabled them to hang out with exchange students sometimes in the city and get college chinese girlfriends. They had laid back host families that let them go out to the bar a couple of nights a week and stay out late as long as they made it to class. The swiss guys were from the german part and could talk with each out. They still struggle tremendously but because they found a group of chinese students and each other to give support.

The 2005-6 year I knew a 10th grade student who went to the top school. He seemed to have a terrible time. (sort of thrown in the deep end. ) He went to a school out of the downtown area. The school was one of the top in Nanjing (versus the experimental school of the previous students) this meant the students had no life other than studying. The first family had obviously thought getting an exchange student would be the english teacher they could pay with food. Often he was left alone in a Big house with nothing but the internet to keep occupied. He didn't have much preparation before and so struggled with the language because he was 15 they gave him almost no freedom. Of the other two students also at his high school, the french girl who had actually had 1 year of Chinese study before, found it too difficult to deal with almost everything in Chinese, and losing a lot of freedom. She left after one month. The other boy, I think from Finland or poland stay 3-4 months before leaving. My Swedish friend who seemed like he can from a somewhat rural farm in Sweden, stay 8 months but was jaded and frustrated. He had a better time in the second transition family who gave him slightly more freedom to take the bus by himself to come home, though it still seemed like he had no life. I meet him when he had 3 months left and so showed him around the basic places like purple mountain and the Nanjing wall etc..

He told me apart from English class, every day was spent at the back of the classroom doodling or reading a book as the Chinese teachers lectured Math in Chinese. He had Chinese classes which tried to teach him the chinese way rote memorization. (The teachers I think were not paid extra and didn't like the extra classes. ) Either way the level he achieved in 3 months was still almost nothing. (his host family wanted him to speak english all the time, and miss pronuncing tones can make people laugh quickly.)

Sometime in the first semester they stopped the classes as he found they weren't changing the way they taught to fit his level and it was fruitless.

In the end they realized how depressed and unhappy he was and for the month took him on traveling around China on the weekends. This at least let him visit Beijing and take some interesting pictures.

So be ready for being stuck in class with very little to do. Also don't expect to become close friends with your exchange family child, he may not even have time to socialize. Most male high school students play online games as their most common recreational activity. (Though there are some that play basketball and football, without refs in a pick-up still games.)

I would learn as much essential Chinese before you go. Things like ordering food, travel vocabulary, how to give directions to a Taxi driver, etc..

And try to get an open minded tolerant family. (often one without a kid is good because you won't have to follow his rules.) Find a social circle or niche that you can socialize with. It might be at the University, or western school. At my University I played on the School volleyball team, you have about 5 phrases need, bump, set, spike, serve and good shot, It was good. Plus it gave things to talk about . (there were lights on the court so you could play at night , sports facilities are not as common as in the US or other western countries in my opinion. )

Anyway good luck. I am a major sinophile and think China is a really cool country in many ways but it saddened me to hear my friend's story of neglect. (most Chinese high school have no life outside of school.) By that I mean life is like the week before the SAT test in the US with people cramming like crazy, except for 3 years of High school.

I rambled on for a long time, but be ready for major culture clash.

If you want advice about stuff you can email me when you're in China or visit Nanjing sometime.

Good luck,

Simon Laing

[roddy]

Best thing to do, if at all possible, is get in touch with people who've done the same program in the past - that'll give you feedback on the actual schools as well. If that isn't possible, you've got to ask yourself why.

If I had to choose one of those cities, I'd probably go for Nanjing - you'll see all the culture stuff in Beijing the month you are here, Nanjing's still a large city, but much more managable than the links of Beijing, Shanghai, etc, close to places like Suzhou, Hangzhou, Huangshan, for travel.

Would also echo Simon's concerns - if you are being dropped, unprepared, into a Chinese classroom you're going to have to make a hell of a lot of effort with the language to get any benefit out of it, and a Chinese high school is not necessarily going to be any good at teaching foreigners Chinese.

[Peeter]

Thank you very much for the replies, people!

@ yulu1

Beijing does sound cool and rich in culture, but won't I be able to get the gist of it in a month? I would like to go someplace else afterwards. As a wise man once said, variety is the spice of life.

@ simonlaing

Your stories frighten me indeed. I've also heard a story about an Estonian girl, who, in spite of her determination and prior studies, found the program overwhelming and came back in half a year.

Once I'll be able to contact them, my first and most important question to YFU China shall be: how much is expected from me? How much do I have to study alongside my Chinese classmates and shall I have to attend to all lessons? I know that in most countries, YFU is pleasantly laid back concerning the issue, but I've also heard that China might be considerably more harsh.

Fact is that I won't be able to communicate through writing, since I haven't the means nor the time to study them before the trip to a sufficient level. And that's going to make my studying significantly more difficult. I will, however, try my best to learn Standard Mandarin as much as possible.

@ roddy

Nanjing does sound good, in that case. I'll consider it.

Nevertheless, the idea of going to Shenzhen sounds the most appealing at the moment. According to wikipedia, it has an increasing number of Standard Mandarin's Beijing dialect speaking people, so I'll theoretically be able to understand what they're speaking.

I've heard a few very vague generalizations, namely:"If you're looking for the heart of culture, go to Beijing, if you simply want to have fun, go south-east" and that the food is better in the south, and although I doubt their genuine aunthenticity, as I have nothing better to go by as of yet, they're affecting me.

Plus the (perhaps irritatingly) hot weather and the cheap prices. In turn, there might be a greater chance of being robbed.

Can anyone who's been there say anything about Shenzhen? Would you recommend going there?

[Rincewind]

Shanghai and Beijing are great places to visit but that doesn't mean I'd want to live there. There is more to living in a city that the "big name" attractions. What makes life a real pleasure is access to bars, clubs, restaurants, parks, gyms and other every day leisure activities. You will be able to get these everyday things in any of the cities that you mentioned, but will you be able to afford them?

Living in Beijing and Shanghai is significantly more expensive than some other cities. If you pick a location such as Shenyang (which is near where I live) then your money will go allot further. You will be able to enjoy eating out and other activities much more often in one of these locations.

It is true that Shenyang isn't as beautiful a city as some of the others on your list. However, there are many things nearby that you can visit. Wikipedia is not very comprehensive on the north east. There are many cities I have visited that are not in wikipedia and here in lies another attraction: Foreigners, while common, are not 'that' common. You will go to and see many things that other people back home did even know existed.

[simonlaing]

Three things about Shenzhen

1. It is a new city in Guangdong, with lots of factories. (Now I haven't been there but I was told it was similar to Guangzhou, which does have pollution issues at times. Things like haze, and air quality. There are a lot of people living there.

2. Shenzhen is a new city, (it was basically a fishing viillage in 1978) Which means it will be hard to see temples, or relic museums that are in many other cities. Xian's wall is still standing , even Shanghai ahs the City temple and Rich Ming Garden still preserved. Although it is relatively close Hainan which has nice beaches, someone told me the beaches in that area are not that good. And it is humid in Summer.

3. Shenzhen is the town where most HK rich men have their 2nd wives. So there is also a larger than most chinese cities red light district. If you're into that this might be a plus, but it tends to demean women, and not as good as a place with a lot of Unviersities for instance.

Anyway, you might want to think of some scenic place. I had a friend who had a good time in Kunming. And Yangshuo, near guilin has a school. These places as well as being beautiful places with good weather, are also some of the cheaper places to live in China.

Just some suggestions, though as a high school student you should probably take a Medium to large city.

Good luck,

Simon:)

[Crivens200]

A lot of people comment on Shenzhen without actually knowing anything about it - all they see is the shopping centre at lowu and a bunch of mad chinese people trying to get them to buy dodgy watches and handbags. Don't ever seek advice from a Hong Kong ex-pat on Shenzhen - most of them live on HK island and view a trip to Kowloon as a trip to The Dark Side, never mind a trip to the hell of Shenzhen.

If I was ever offered the opportunity to live in Shenzhen Beijing or Shanghai my choice would be Shenzhen at this stage (probably because I have already lived in BJ and SH).

The good things about Shenzhen - it is a modern developed city with lots of bars and clubs and decent restaurants. The daily language amongst the majority of people living there is not Cantonese as most people state, but is in fact putonghua due to the large influx of waidiren making up the majority of the population. It is near the beach and weather is good all year round. Pollution isn't as bad as people make out. You can get to HK on the train. Macau is close by by ferry. There is a growing expat population there.

Having said that - anywhere in China will be great fun if you approach it with the right spirit. Good luck!

[bianfuxia]

I live in Beijing and really love it. I spent a week in Shanghai and it seemed cool. My day in Shenzen, midsummer, was horrible but Crivens200 summed up well the reasons people like me should not judge Shenzhen! It was 40 degrees, we were on a shopping bender and after 6 weeks in Sichuan and Qinghai I was just itching to get to Hong Kong. Not quite the attitude for giving Shenzhen a fair go.

But let me offer you a couple of other suggestions:

If you'll be attending school, I take it that you're about 18 or below? Living with a family here might be a little different to living with a family in the west. I think that once you have checked out the various "cultural angles" of Beijing, the key to whether you have a good time or not is going to be on how well you are able to fit in with your schoolmates and your host family. It won't matter so much which city it is.

As a high school student living in a family, you may not have the kind of autonomy you'd need to really sink yourself into the nightlife of even the smaller cities. Instead, I suspect you'll be spending a lot of time hanging out with a group of friends. This, ultimately, is what is going to be culturally interesting and memorable for you. So you should focus on that and not worry too much about which city you go to.

People everywhere manage to have fun, and I think the really fun part of your experience is going to be at the micro level - getting to know locals really well, experiencing life as they do. If your Chinese gets to a decent level, you can come back in a few years to work and spend every night at a Shanghai jazz club should that be your desire. But the chance to experience local life with local young people may not come again.

I was an exchange student after high school (not here) and was sent to a small village. I was a bit disappointed at first because it wasn't a big famous city with loads of cool bars and museums, but ultimately I had an amazing time immersing myself in a new way of life.

All that said, I'd plump for Beijing given the chance! It has modern aspects and, once you know where to look, really "old" aspects too. You could be playing basketball all night with your mates and then the next morning be playing chinese chess in an alley with some old guy who remembered Mao. I'm sure you can do this in the other cities too but Beijing has a distinct charm to it that many people feel is unique (or unique-ish, at least...).

Where-ever you go, have a great time and remember that your experience is about the people you spend the time with, more than the city itself.

[Peeter]

@ Rincewind

Indeed, huge and seemingly attractive cities might not have much on smaller ones, plus they're likely to be more expensive to live in. Regardless, it seems to be in my best interest to go living in a city that's commercially and economically flourishing rather than in one that isn't. Such cities tend to have more variety, which is just what I need, plus, the people are more used to foreigners, so it would be easier to be socially accepted.

@ simonlaing

Thanks for the tips. All in all, the south seems quite promising.

@ Crivens200

Thanks! I by all means intend to be in the right spirit.

@ bianfuxia

While the most important thing is indeed to take the initiative and be sociable, tolerant and attractive, at this stage, the only thing on which I need specific information is the location. I believe living in a large city gives me a better opportunity to socialize with many different people, generally speaking.

Speaking of which, what sort of distinctive stereotypes are there as to what are people like in different parts in China? For example, Southern Europeans such as Italians and Spanish are considered quite emotional, passionate and lively, Germans are sometimes considered perfectionistic, perhaps even pedantic.What is said of people in different areas of China? By the way, Estonians, my fellow countrymen, are generally considered to be a bit shy and cold, but hard-working.

[Rincewind]

the people are more used to foreigners, so it would be easier to be socially accepted.

I wouldn't quite agree with the generalisation. In Beijing and Shanghai there are so many foreigners that people will just ignore you. Those that do take interest in you are probably of dubious motive. Where as in smaller cities where a foreigner is unusual, people will approach you just to have meet a white person. It's not unusual to be handed gifts by complete strangers for no apparent reason. I have had many lolly pops, a silk fan and on one day, when it rained, I was handed an umbrella by a woman who refuse any attempt to return it or pay for it. I think in a smaller city you are much more likely, as bianfuxia put it, "be playing Chinese chess in an alley with some old guy who remembered Mao." while still having the basketball and MacDonald's near to hand.

Having said all that, all the cities on your list are big cities. The above comment applies to the non provincial capitals. i.e. Cities with C, D and E in the car registration plates.

Speaking of which, what sort of distinctive stereotypes are there as to what are people like in different parts in China?

In the north east, people consider themselves to be much more trustworthy and honest than people in Beijing and the south. However, the Chinese definition of honest seems to be very different form mine.

[ylyhaha]

I want to say something about shenzhen,because i am living here( i am chinese..

it is a young city, in the street you can see everywhere is young people, i think it is easy to make friends here.

People from many cities of China come to work, especially young people. So people speak Mandarin here more than Cantones.

There are many places for shopping, the clothes for example, is cheaper here( Because around shenzhen there are many factories that make clothes for little brand o international brand..)

You will have chances to try all kinds of food of China, because as i said, here come many people from all over the country.

There are beaches and the city is more tidy than Beijing ( personal impresion after i came back from the travelling from Beijing )it is the "gardenn city" . But it is hot and has wetness in summer. Beijing is hot too, no more dry. ( I never been in shanghai...)In winter no is such cold as Beijing, about 5-15 degrees.

If you like to live in the typicol chinese city, i suggest you can go Beijing, Shenzhen is very new. Of couse if you want, you cann travel all over the country.

By the way, choose what you like.