Z visa vs. 2-year F visa

[gwbutton]

An American citizen with plans to go to China this summer to stay indefinitely, leaving the country for business reasons every 3 months. Although I would not be able to teach full-time at a school, a seemingly reputable (!) private language institution explained to me in person during my last visit as a tourist that I could procure a Z visa through them - without actually teaching at the school - upon payment of 3,000 RMB and a trip to Hong Kong (at my expense of course) for processing. Has anyone done this?? Is this legal? Would I legally be able to do privates?

In light of my situation, however, I am particularly interested in the 2-year F visa which seems to be available at the China Consulate in San Francisco. My 10 previous visits to the country include one (already used) F visa (multiple re-entry) and several L visas... According to the SF Consulate's homepage, a copy of this previous F visa (multiple entry) should be sufficient to obtain the 2-year F visa. Would I legally be able to work (i.e. - teach privates) with this 2-year F visa? As I must leave the country every 3 months for one short week each time to keep an eye on business back home, the F seems much more attractive than the Z.......

Any information/advice/experiences would be most appreciated!

Many thanks in advance.....

[Senzhi]

Legally ...

... an F Visa is only if you conduct foreign business within China, i.e. a salesperson from a European or American company, doing temporary business here. Key is that the employer needs to have a non-Chinese business license.

... F Visa's can also be issued for cultural or educational exchange purposes. Key here is the word 'exchange', which simply means: you come to here, and someone here takes your place there for a while. This also means you cannot be contracted under Chinese employment law.

... Z visa's are only for people who have a 'work permit' and is only a temp visa to obtain residence permit. In other words, this is the one when you're offered a contract under Chinese employment law. In other words, the company or institution has a Chinese business license.

Take note that a Z visa is only issued at a Chinese embassy outside China, upon showing the Chinese contract (and a bunch of other bureacratic papers).

That was legally ...

Practically, anything is possible due to local "laws", guanxi and other dubious matters. Being cautious is seriously advised. I speak of personal experience ... like many others in this beautiful country.

In your case, with an F Visa, you're simply not allowed to teach (legally). And for a Z Visa you'll need an employment offer from the teaching institution, which then in your country of residence (NOT Hong Kong) will have to be changed in a Work Permit and Residence Permit valid for one year. However, if you go ahead with this, remember you'll be submitted to Chinese employment laws and also to the contract, as well as any other implications that may arise ...

Personally, I would be very cautious in considering these kind of dubious offers.

Hope the above helps you in some way,

Serge

[woliveri]

Well, I find these visa issues interesting. You should note from the Chinese Embassy's website that even though you can have a 24 month F visa but the limit within the country each time is 30 days. However, if you go to China on a tourist visa and then change it to an F visa from within China you can stay for the entire length of the visa.

In addition, I was told by a friend that there is somewhat of a loophole within the laws regarding teaching and that is that you can represent yourself as a "guest lecturer" which will allow you to teach on an F visa... I haven't checked this out yet so please beware.

Now, having said all that, I taught privately on an F visa when I was there with no problems. If you are very discreet I don't think you will not have a problem (depending on location).

[mr.stinky]

what about starting your own business in china? would that be an F or a Z visa?

sounds like F is only for foreign reps, and Z for those employed at chinese companies.

can a Z or F be obtained in Hong Kong? if so, what are the requirements if you already

are in country with another type visa?

[Senzhi]

For starting your own business in China, you would need a Chinese business license.

They are called WFOE (Wholly Foreign-owned Enterprises), and are limited liability companies who should be primarily engaged in export business and China should not be their primary market. If you intend to sell your products to the local market, the government will generally recommend that you start a joint venture with local Chinese business instead.

WFOE's are also excluded from some business concessions which joint ventures enjoy.

Setting up a WFOE in China can be complicated. An application has to go through several different departments at different levels for approval. It usually takes months to get all the necessary approvals.

Practically:

- You'll need first to make sure you have enough financial assets to impress the Chinese and local government.

- Then you would need to apply for an L (Tourist) or F (Business) Visa, depending on your current situation.

- Then you'll need to apply for the Business Licence. A lot of guanxi is needed here, else you'll be requesting a lot of L or F Visa's before you really start business.

- Finally when the business license is issued by the local government, you can apply at the local governenment for a Z visa. This Z visa will then have to be changed into a Residence Permit within 30 days.

Or in short, it takes a lot of courage, money, and bureaucracy to set up your personal business here. Not recommeded if you have the possibility to go for a joint venture with a Chinese company (but then you would only have an F Visa, as you would own already a foreign business license).

[mr.stinky]

my situation is that i will (probably) be getting hitched really soon. the local authorities

don't seem to know the answers. have to figure out X and L visas, and what i can do

under my laopo's name.

[Senzhi]

Just to clarify:

An X visa (Education visa) is only if you have received an offer from a university or college to study or enrol in advanced studies or internship for six months or more.

Holders of X visas are prohibited from any employment during their stay. It is a single entry visa, and only valid for 30 days, in which it has to be changed into a residence permit (with, again, the necessary bureaucracy).