Zhende ma? Posted April 2, 2004 at 07:40 AM Report Posted April 2, 2004 at 07:40 AM Hi, I was wondering if anyone could guide me on correct usage of 之 and 的. When you have a word or phrase modifying the subject. I've seen them used in similar situations. I think 之 is more for written language but I'm not sure. Any help is appreciated. Quote
skylee Posted April 2, 2004 at 08:57 AM Report Posted April 2, 2004 at 08:57 AM I would say mostly we use 的. 之 is mostly used in set phrases, idioms, proverbs, poems, etc. Quote
kentsuarez Posted April 2, 2004 at 10:27 AM Report Posted April 2, 2004 at 10:27 AM Yes, use 的 at first, as it is colloquial; 之 is mostly classical, with various meanings, and it will sound funny if you try to use it as a simple replacement for 的. When you hit very advanced levels you'll start to get a feel for when it is ok to use 之 in writing and occasionally even in speech. Quote
geek_frappa Posted April 2, 2004 at 01:44 PM Report Posted April 2, 2004 at 01:44 PM 之 is used in mathematics to delimit fractions and percentages... 6/8 http://chinese.primezero.com/pzcdz/u.php?search=6%2F8 88% http://chinese.primezero.com/pzcdz/u.php?search=88%25 Quote
39degN Posted April 2, 2004 at 03:18 PM Report Posted April 2, 2004 at 03:18 PM yes, i just found the regulation right now: when NEXT word is a single character, we always use 之, otherwise(two-character word, more-character word), you can always use 的, despite whether that we can change it to 之 examples: 美国之音 中国之旅 太行之巅 你我之间 and there are lot of examples with 的, u can just find it by yourself. Quote
ala Posted April 3, 2004 at 02:20 AM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 02:20 AM 之 is the classical genitive. 的 is pretty recent, I think first appeared in Ming text. And applies only to Mandarin. Southern dialects tend to use ge/ga. 之 is typically used as a genitive for morphemes in ONE WORD (like: 味之素 for MSG; or fractions, etc), or as a short headline-like clause (you see it often for journal titles); while 的 is used for clauses in conversational grammar. Since all Japanese words have a character equivalent, the possessive "no" の can also be written as 之. 之 is often used temporal clauses as well, and very common in Shanghainese: 白相好之以后...我 (After playing， I... ). In SH, we can also say 电视看之前头... (Before watching TV...). But like 39degN said, in Mandarin, usually single character word follows the 之 as in 玩好之后... 之 can also mean "that" in classical Chinese. Quote
Quest Posted April 3, 2004 at 02:46 AM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 02:46 AM 之前，之后? same thing in Mandarin and Cantonese. Quote
trooper Posted April 3, 2004 at 02:56 AM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 02:56 AM when NEXT word is a single character, we always use 之 我的书？ 美丽的花？ Quote
ananda Posted April 3, 2004 at 06:42 AM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 06:42 AM trooper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: when NEXT word is a single character, we always use 之 我的书？ 美丽的花？<This 的 is following an adjective and has different meaning as the former one which means 'of'.> well, when use 之, the next NOUN is often a single character in modern chinese. Quote
roddy Posted April 3, 2004 at 08:24 AM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 08:24 AM when NEXT word is a single character, we always use 之 我之天! I never knew that . . . Roddy Quote
39degN Posted April 3, 2004 at 03:07 PM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 03:07 PM haha, you guys are really sharp, so let me fix my conclusion: in most cases.... you see, the researching of theory is really a difficult work. so the safer way is, never touching it... Quote
roddy Posted April 3, 2004 at 03:25 PM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 03:25 PM But like 39degN said, in Mandarin, usually single character word follows the 之 as in 玩好之后... So would it be accurate to say that after 之 you usually get a single-character word, but after 的 it can be either. Seems likely to me, with 之 being more classical, and classical Chinese being more monosyllabic. yes, i just found the regulation right now: So where was it 'found'? Roddy Quote
39degN Posted April 3, 2004 at 03:50 PM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 03:50 PM hehe, i think i didnt make it clear, i meant, i just got a conclusion by myself, i m sorry for that. i will collect enough knock-down arguments to prove my point next time... Seems likely to me, with 之 being more classical, and classical Chinese being more monosyllabic. yeah, it is, also, skylee and kentsuarez's points are right, but I just wanted to find a regulation there as a plus. Seems it failed. Quote
trooper Posted April 3, 2004 at 04:01 PM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 04:01 PM Good try though. It got me thinking. Quote
39degN Posted April 3, 2004 at 04:17 PM Report Posted April 3, 2004 at 04:17 PM 谢谢鼓励！ 我会继续努力的~~~！（周星弛语） Quote
geek_frappa Posted April 4, 2004 at 01:55 AM Report Posted April 4, 2004 at 01:55 AM 有問題! 兩邊均被夾緊之物 <----- is it true that beautiful women in beijing come in pairs? please don't ban me... i used 之 Quote
39degN Posted April 5, 2004 at 02:53 PM Report Posted April 5, 2004 at 02:53 PM 兩邊均被夾緊之物 <----- is it true that beautiful women in beijing come in pairs? please don't ban me... i used 之 hey,buddy, your words look like from erotic fiction... Quote
Zhende ma? Posted April 5, 2004 at 03:01 PM Author Report Posted April 5, 2004 at 03:01 PM 大家多谢！(I hope this word order is correct!) Quote
39degN Posted April 5, 2004 at 03:08 PM Report Posted April 5, 2004 at 03:08 PM incorrect! try it again. Quote
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