Pimsleur or Rosetta Stone

[emmenite]

Hey guys, I need your advice on this. I am interested in learning Chinese (and languages in general) and I am trying to figure out if Pimsleur or Rosetta Stone is the best way to learn to speak a language. Both are highly acclaimed (and expensive) so it is important that I figure out which truly is the best. For those who are fairly experienced with both, I would appreciate it if you would tell me the strength and weaknesses of both and please inform me about:

1. The amount of information they contain (how proficient will I be in the end)

2. The speed of learning this information (which will get me conversing the fastest)

3. How well they will teach me to speak (which will get me speaking the most clearly and correctly in the language)

I am aware that Pimsleur does not teach writing, and that is fine. I care much more about conversation than writing at the moment. I have tried Pimsleur in the past and am fairly satisfied but I am wondering how Rosetta Stone stands up.

Thanks.

[tokyo_girl]

I don't know but also consider what kind of learner you are.

My feeling is unless you are a strong auditory learner, visual

backup helps.

Even if you are interested in only speaking, vocab is much

easier to accumulate with a knowledge of writing.

[kdavid]

Rosetta Stone is worthless. There's a post on here elsewhere and most people tend to agree.

Pimsleur is good, though, yes, it doesn't teach you how to read or write (but, really, Rosetta Stone doesn't either). You can supplement reading / writing with a good textbook (again, tons of good ones listed in here somewhere).

How proficient will you be at the end? Well, after you finish Pimsleur 3 you'll know around 500 words, which won't get you real far. You'll be able to do basic touristy things (ask for directions, order food, introduce yourself and others, vaguely talk about your family, etc), but won't be conversational. I do believe, however, that Pimsleur will get you further orally than Rosetta stone.

Best thing to do would be to work at Pimsleur and supplement it with a good "teach yourself" reading / writing book. And, of course, if one is available, hire a native-speaker private tutor to meet with a couple of times a week.

[kdavid]

I also highly recommend ChinesePod.com.

[gtraines]

Hi there!

I decided to respond because I'm a good example of someone who doesn't learn well by listening. I took Mandarin for several semesters, and by the end could write 500 or 600 words and understood Chinese "grammar" pretty well, but still couldn't speak or understand much beyond the customary greetings. Perhaps because of it's tonality and the similarity of so many of the words, I had a terrifically difficult time learning to speak and understand Chinese.

I gave up on Mandarin for about five years, then bought the Pimseur system on a lark. I went through Pimsleur I and II before spending one month in China as a student. When I got there, I knew nothing at all for the first couple weeks, but eventually began to recognize the words and phrases I had learned being used in everyday situations. By the time I left China, I was finally begining to put together what I had learned from Pimsleur in an intelligent way. Now that I'm back home in the US, I went quickly back through levels I and II of Pimsleur and am now going through level III. Although I have no misconceptions that I'll actually be able to speak Chinese fluently when I'm done, this foundation is making it much easier for me to practice speaking with my Chinese friends here. Now, instead of recognizing nothing they say, I'm able to pick out only a few things that I didn't understand and concentrate on learning those particular things.

I am just about a worst-case scenario for Pimsleur, but after beating my head against the wall with it for a while I finally feel like I'm going to be able to speak Mandarin some day. I recommend Pimsleur in combination with a Chinese character text, and even if you find if difficult at first you'll get it eventually. It's not easy for me, but short of living in China or taking an immersion course I don't think there's an easier way to learn this language.

[wrbt]

If your goal is to be able to get around a little in China then Pimsleur is the way to go... being drilled over and over on the high use content in Pimsleur will prove far more useful than being able to talk about the color of the chair.

If you wish to learn Chinese and be conversational just accept it'll take awhile and go buy a good textbook with audio component. Integrated, NPCR, whatever.

I think RS could be a good supplement if you've got the cash to throw around.

[leosmith]

I am trying to figure out if Pimsleur or Rosetta Stone is the best way to learn to speak a language.

Hi emmenite, you probably know this, but just to clarify for others who may be reading. Both of these programs are just introductions, or first steps, in learning languages. Especially time consuming languages like Chinese. For example, one may finish all 90 Pimsleur lessons in less than 100 hours. But I've never heard of anyone achieving "basic fluency" in Chinese in less than 2000 hours. I think 3 to 5 k is more common. Speaking/listening alone may be closer to 1000 hours, but even if that's the case, Pimsleur is about 10%.

That being said, I agree with tokyo_girl about having a list to help you. The visual aspect is very important for me. Another suggestion, which ties into having a list, is spend a few hours going over pronunciation before you start. This can be done a few minutes a day, spread out over a couple weeks for good memory retention. It's very common to not be able to tell exactly what they're pronouncing for every word. "Was that a ch or a q?" you may wonder. If you see the word, you'll know, and since you know the difference between the two, you'll be able to make the right sound. It definitely gets easier as you go along.

I've never tried Rosetta Stone. I'm a big Pimsleur fan. It teaches great pronunciation, and forces me to make sentences on the fly, which is a good skill to master. Vocabulary is only 500 words, which is unfortunate. But I suppose the limited size is why I feel so comfortable with the vocab.

Good luck!

[emmenite]

Thanks guys. I guess I should just find a tutor or something. Pimsleur has been great for me but it seems that it doesn't teach very much. For those who know Chinese as a second language, how difficult would you say that it (spoken Chinese) is to learn? Some parts of it such as the lack of genders or changing verb forms (and this sounds like a Godsend while I'm taking French in school) sound very simple to me. Then again, I have those tones to worry about. I have heard many opinions, ranging from statements saying Chinese is very simple to almost impossibly hard.

Any tips for a complete beginner to start a mastery of the Chinese language?

[kdavid]

I believe that how quickly you master the tones is contingent upon your environment and exposure to the language. I've been studying in China for just over 8 months now and I feel that I have a good grasp on the tones (though I still get hung up on shifting tone combinations--you can worry about this later).

I feel that it was at about month 3 or 4 that I was able to pick them up in a conversation; for example, when speaking with a friend I could listen to what they were saying and map out the tones.

I don't think Chinese is really that difficult. It all comes down to what your goals are and how disciplined you want to be about studying it.

[emmenite]

Alright. I'm planning starting to learn Chinese when school gets out this summer. That gives me about three months of time for study before I need to go back. What are some things that I should have to learn with? I'm going to try to find somebody that will help teach me. Should I also get a book or are those pretty useless for this sort of thing? Is there anything else that would help me?

[kdavid]

I highly recommend the New Practical Chinese Reader series. You can get them off amazon. They teach you characters from the first volume, and force you to learn them, as all activities and texts from the second volume forward are all entirely in characters (you won't progress in this series without knowledge of the characters).

Take a look at Chinese pod. You can get a free premium subscription for 7 days to try it out. Check out some of the newbie lessons.

If you're university has writing classes, and you'll need to know writing for whatever your goals are, then buy a good "teach yourself" writing book. I can't recommend one, but I'm sure someone here can.

Definitely get a tutor. If you don't have a native speaker correcting you you're likely to learn bad speaking (and writing) habits that will be very difficult to correct in the future. Also, try and get a tutor from the NE of China so that you get the best accent. You can also look into online language swap sites for language exchange / practicing your oral Mandarin (Skype is good for this).

[emmenite]

Alright, thanks KDavid. It'ss check out that Chinese Pod thing and those books. I definitely won't get any Chinese stuff at school but I'll try to find some sort of tutor and look at those books.