working on an F visa risky?

[yonitabonita]

Hi folks,

Does anyone know how risky it is to work in China while on an F visa?

I'd do things legally if I could, but I've come up against an issue with two potential employers, who are brining up the issue of visas. They are willing to employ me, but not willing to sponsor me for a proper work visa.

What do people usually do in such a situation?

Thanks for any advice,

Y

[liuzhou]

9 times out of ten, you'll be OK. But is is illegal and if they decide to have one of their periodic crackdowns you could have problems.

It's just the same as being illegal back home. No protection, chance of being deported, bad conditions etc. Usually they turn a blind eye to teachers (but not always). The locals here in Guangxi have just deported a whole bunch of illegals and are refusing visa extensions to many more.

(Thank God, I'm legal!)

[roddy]

A subject close to my heart.

As Liuzhou says most of the time you are fine. However, it leaves you a bit more vulnerable if say your employer concludes that paying you is optional, or if the local PSB do a sweep to check up on overseas employees - which is rare, but does happen, I know the offices of a major English language newspaper were visited recently for this reason.

In your position I would be inclined to hold out. There are some administrative hoops to jump through for a company to be allowed to employ foreigners, but it's hardly impossible, and if they are serious about employing credible overseas workers long term they're going to need to do it at some point. I've only ever held down an office job while on an F visa once, and I did it on the basis that after six months they would need to be ready to offer visa support, or say bye. They were ready.

[yonitabonita]

Thanks for the input guys.

It's crazy that I even have to ask these questions. The 'potential employers' in question are, ironically enough, law firms.

@sses!

Y

[roddy]

Perhaps that can be your first task - get them ready to employ foreigners.

Realistically, you'll probably be fine. It would be very easy for them to clamp down on F-visa workers if they wanted, they just generally aren't fussed at the moment. However, at some point China is going to start enforcing its own visa laws, so some forward planning - by the company, if not by yourself - is wise.

From my point of view if a company wants to have long-term and credible foreign employees, it needs to be offering the option of fully legal, tax-paying, visa-bearing contracts. And if it doesn't - how badly do you really want to be working there? You should be able to find the requirements for firms to employ foreign folk on the SAFEA website, and it's not like they've got to offer up a pound of flesh and their first-born son.

[venture160]

Are they offering you some sort of 6 months internship where you will just be paid a stipend? And then based on your performance they will give you an offer? If so, I believe its legal to perform an "internship" with a stipend on a F Visa. From the law itself: can be used for a"internship for a period of no more than six months." If you agreed upon this being a internship you could just get a 6 month F visa.

Also to put things in perspective, I'd take a guess to say 80% of the koreans running real estate and the buxiban companies don't have the correct paperwork and 牌照‘s. I also heard from an experienced China businessman that he has been meeting all sorts of people running consulting companies over here from hotel rooms on tourist visa's with their transactions taking place in the BVI.

[dan ni er]

I reckon it would be fine - however, it's worth considering what they will be like as employers if they won't even go through the process of applying for a work visa for you.

From what I understand, it's not a difficult nor particularly costly, so I can't help but wonder why they won't apply for one for you. However, if you'll be first working as an intern, with the possibility of a full time offer depending on performance, then it does kind of make sense not to go through the hassle of applying for a visa.

Are these multi-national law firms?

[Pengyou]

Another consideration that might make this "legal" is if you were paid on a case by case basis. I have just read a ton of sites about F sites and it seems it is OK for consultants, visiting scholars, salesman, etc so it might fit....

[badr]

basically the F visa if for business folks as well as anyone that takes on a short term job ( up to 6 months) in China. That's why some companies have rolling 6 month contracts so that they do not need to deal with the hassles of getting residence permits, foreign expert or work permits..

In Beijing, it seems like most of the folks i know are on an F visa without a problem.

[roddy]

Is the F (which is, after all, for 访问ing) ever officially described as for short term work? I'm quite sure you can do it, but I'm not sure it's actually meant to be used in that way.

[cdn_in_bj]

Is the F (which is, after all, for 访问ing) ever officially described as for short term work? I'm quite sure you can do it, but I'm not sure it's actually meant to be used in that way.

Maybe they are able to get it to fall under the category of "short-term internship".

[Lu]

I was in a similar position, but in Taiwan. I agree with the person who said that if they don´t even want to apply for a visa for you, how will they treat you, how serious are they in wanting you working for them? (In my case, I got fired by email after three weeks.) Better try and find a company that will sponsor you for a work visa.

[heifeng]

yeah, even my really really shady(I mean cheap) company that I occasionally did work for was willing to get me the work visa and a reporters pass, but I just didn't want to be under their control and didn't let process that visa, but in general I I try to be nice to them anyway...just in case I need that favor...