Transfer Money Through Moneybookers

[elina]

We’re considering adding this online payment method (http://www.moneybookers.com/app/) to our site, mainly for receiving overseas payments, and then we need to withdraw the balance of the account into our Chinese bank. Anyone has some experience with their service? Thanks.

I have seen this post before, but don’t know what kind of bad experience the first poster means:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=97795

[gato]

You can email or private message that user who had the bad experience.

[elina]

Ok, I'll try, thank you.

Any other input?

[tallynole]

not sure about moneybookers but have you tried paypal?

I think they are operating in China now so that might work out a little bit better for you.

[imron]

This charity prefers the use of Moneybookers over Paypal for web-based donations, and has this to say:

We have been using Moneybookers for some time now and it works well. Not only are the costs per transaction lower than with PayPal, we also get a referal bonus!

However they also note:

Also send me an e-mail about the donation, the information coming through Moneybookers is minimal.

Regarding PayPal, I seem to recall Elina mentioning in a previous post that it's a real pain to get money out of PayPal and into your bank account if you're Chinese.

[flameproof]

Moneybookers is 100% legit and works well. I use it too. Advantage over Paypal is, that money after being paid by the buyer can not be withdrawn. Means payments are final.

You can also get money to your China bank via SWIFT very cheap. Just try it, to sign up is free anyway.

[roddy]

You might also want to look at using Google Checkout (checkout.google.com) - it's relatively new and they're not yet working with merchants in China, but I've used it three times in the last few days and have been impressed with how user-friendly it is.

As for moneybookers I probably wouldn't use them simply on the basis that I don't really know anything about them. Have heard the name, but don't recall seeing them as a payment option anywhere. Go ahead if it works out cheaper, but I think you'll find Paypal is often preferred just for being the better known option.

[gato]

Elina,

Are you able to use 首信易支付 for online payment? It is possible to add foreign credit card as a payment option. That would make things easier for a lot of foreign purchasers.

See http://www.beijing.com.cn/payease/b2c/overseacard.jsp

首信易支付 外卡支付

[elina]

but have you tried paypal?

We have used PayPal, the reason that we want to change:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/12930-does-this-mean-paypal-discriminates-against-chinese-people

Thank you for those who reply this thread, this forum is great, I didn’t expect to get so informative posts before, but I don’t quite understand these different online payment methods, going to study them tomorrow.

Any more advices are welcome and appreciated.

[elina]

After some time study on http://www.moneybookers.com/app/, I think we will add this online payment method to our website soon.

Regarding 首信易支付, it’s possible to use, which seems to need to plug-in some program to our site. We might change our server, it’s not fixed yet:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/12403-reliable-server-provider

I’m not sure if we add 首信易支付 at first, and then change the server, will it still work well? Maybe we will wait for a while.

How about this online payment method: http://www.e-gold.com/? From the information on the internet, it looks like not as secure as moneybookers. And I can open this site: http://www.e-gold.org.cn/, but cannot open this site: http://www.e-gold.com/ to see more details, it shows 找不到服务器/ cannot find the server, maybe it’s blocked.

Flameproof, you’re very kind and helpful, who can always make experienced advices, THANK YOU VERY MUCH! We’ll take your suggestion there and cancel the PayPal online payment method on our site in the near future. You seem to do some online business too, right? 祝你生意兴隆！Hope you have sold out your Chinese Made Easier.

[gato]

Elina,

You probably should ask PayEase to send you a copy of their 《接口说明》, which should explain how you can connect your website to their payment system. Reading this will give you a better idea of your requirements for a web host.

http://www.beijing.com.cn/payease/b2c/help.jsp#11

技术接口的开发包如何使用，采用虚拟主机的网站该怎么办？？

首信易支付的《接口说明》中包括技术规范、组件注册、调用的方法、程序的示例与解释，并且指导商户进行接口开发，不超过一个工作日即可调试完毕。如果商户网站使用虚拟主机，还需要找服务器的提供商协商，支持对主机的一些操作权限，例如组件注册等。

[mr.stinky]

http://www.51qb.com/index_en.asp

anyone familiar with this service?

[elina]

Gato,

The problem is that we still don’t decide which kind of server we will use: 虚拟主机 or 虚拟独享主机(VPS)

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%CF%A2%3B%C8%C0%2Cvps&url=http%3A//www%2Emy%2Dds%2Ecn/htdocs/store/vpshost%2Ephp&p=987dc54ad49a0bb10be2942a56&user=baidu

And also will we use a server abroad? For the reasons:

1. our main overseas customers in U.S. and Europe can visit our site with faster speed.

2 for the reason I don’t want to talk in the public, but some of you already know.

But our English is really poor to communicate with overseas server providers. Maybe those server providers in Hong Kong, Taiwan or Singapore can speak Chinese with us, but is that server helpful for faster speed for our customers in U.S. and Europe?

We’re hesitate about the issue of website’s server, so we cannot consider the 首信易支付 at the moment.

Mr.stinky,

In this thread, we have learned that site:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6947-transfer-money-through-paypal-in-beijing&page=2

Now I strongly think “the Minimum Withdraw Amount ($2,000.00) is too high”. At present, we have more than USD 4600.00 in our PayPal account, but we cannot touch the money since it’s limited to use. In the future, we will carefully withdraw every USD 1000.00 in our Moneybookers or whatever online account.

[gato]

I've had good experience with ICDSoft, a hosting company based in HK. They have servers both in HK and in the U.S. (Boston) and let you choose which you want based on your target audience. Don't know if their tech support use Chinese or not. You can ask them.

http://www2.icdsoft.com/hosting.php

ICDSoft

[elina]

Ok, thank you, Gato, going to write an email to them tomorrow.

[flameproof]

Elina

You can also have a look at the new Google payment service, no idea if that fits you though. Advantage would be that google is well known. It's always difficult to convince a customer to try yet another payment system, specially if unknown.

You should immediately remove all Paypal payment option from your shop site, otherwise you just add to the blocked amount. And you have no idea when, or if, you will get it back.

I still have my "Chinese Made Easier". Actually today I went to the big shop in Xidan, seems they have no stock change since my last visit in December. They still don't have #2

I use Paypal for a few years and had about 3000 or so transactions as a seller. I am well aware that Paypal can make BIG problems to sellers. Therefore you should clear the account as often as possible. I usually withdraw every time I have $200 or so. Just for safety. Now you understand why.

I haven't had too many problems. A few chargebacks, a few buyers complaints. I just refund those. My items are high profit and I don't bother to deal with those trouble, I just refund.

PS: I havn't heard too many good things about e-gold

[elina]

We have added Moneybookers online payment method to our site:

The handling charge paid by Moneybookers:

Registration: FREE

Upload Money From Bank: FREE

Upload Money From Credit Card: 1.9%

Send Money: 1% (up to € 0.50)

The handling charge paid by PayPal, which was originally written on our site, but now we have cancelled it:

In our email requesting your payment, we will add 8% to the grand total amount of your order as the handling charge for the following 3 procedures:

(a) We use a PayPal Premier Account to achieve advanced features, so we will be charged the first transaction fee by PayPal when receiving payment, which is not free like using a PayPal Personal Account.

(B) When withdrawing the money from our PayPal account, we will be charged the second transaction fee by PayPal.

© When depositing the check provided by PayPal into our Chinese bank account, we will be charged the third transaction fee by the Chinese bank.

So I think it’s a little cheaper for our customers to use Moneybookers. But it’s said from the information in the internet, Moneybookers is only well-known in Europe, not very famous worldwide as PayPal, it’s the downside.

checkout.google.com does not support users in China.

I usually withdraw every time I have $200 or so. Just for safety. Now you understand why.

We wish to do that, but I’m afraid we cannot. Because it’s very difficult to upload money from a Chinese bank or credit card to the online account (whatever PayPal or Moneybookers, or do I miss something here?). We should keep enough money as the balance in the account, in case our customers need to be refunded, if they won’t receive their packages, or packages were damaged during the long distance transportation, although till now our every customer receives their parcels in good condition in time, none of our customers has been refunded.

Gato,

Emailed ICDSoft, got a very quick reply in about 2 minutes:

Yes, we have servers in Boston, USA.

If you wish to ask your questions in Chinese you will need to write to our Hong Kong department at sales@icdsoft.com.hk. Please note that they might not be available 24/7 like the English speaking support team.

We’ll contact them later to see if we can cooperate in the future.

Many thanks to everyone who answers this thread.

[flameproof]

Paypal: In our email requesting your payment, we will add 8% to the grand total

Under Paypal's TOS you are not allowed to add anything when people use Paypal. You have to calculate your cost into the product cost, or shipping cost.

You are are allowed to give a discount if people pay other methods though.

If you have added cost before then there is a good chance that a customer complained to PP and ask for a refund of the added cost.

It's better to read the small print of the TOS.

A workaround to avoid banking costs (that is mainly the 2.6% that Paypal "lose" during currency transaction) you can open a bank account in the USA. HSBC i.e. can do that from Hong Kong. It's maybe worthwhile to give them a call. Otherwise it's not so easy to open USA bank accounts (Chase has that service too)

[elina]

Under Paypal's TOS you are not allowed to add anything when people use Paypal. You have to calculate your cost into the product cost, or shipping cost.

We really don’t know that rule, and have no idea where the TOS is, which we’d better to read. About more than 1 year ago, we began to use PayPal on our site with a 8% handling charge paid by our customers, mentioned in my No. 17 post above, and also see my No. 13 post in this thread:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6947-transfer-money-through-paypal-in-beijing&page=2

When we use PayPal, we send emails titled with “Confirm Your Order” to our customers:

If you use PayPal Online Payment, the grand total of your order:

$aaa.aa x 1.08=$bbb.bb

Please carefully check this letter, especially your detailed receiving address, including receiver’s name, street address, city, country, post code, your telephone number, etc. And then answer this email, make sure at the beginning in your email, you leave your words something like “Now I confirm my order as follows: ” with my original message still reserved below. We will strictly perform according to the email. If you want to do some changing in your order, never mind, I will discuss with you and send you a new email titled with “Confirm Your Order” again for you to confirm.

After receiving your confirmation email, we will send you a letter requesting your payment through our PayPal account. Then you could pay us through your PayPal account.

And our price is already cheaper, so people are willing to pay this extra 8% to us. After our PayPal account is limited to use this time, we have searched in the internet, and found there’re many reasons for PayPal to “freeze” a seller’s account, which is very complicated, such as if a person used a stolen account to pay you the money, then your account can be locked later, etc. etc.:

http://bbs.e-gold.org.cn/archiver/tid-78.html

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=moneybookers%3B%B6%B3%BD%E1&url=http%3A//hi%2Ebaidu%2Ecom/nju918/blog/item/85e4d213ea1ab6025baf53fd%2Ehtml&p=987d8e0786cc43b30be2977a5953&user=baidu

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=paypal%2Ctos&url=http%3A//www%2E0sars%2Ecom/biz/acc%2Dorg%2Dbulletin%2Dpage%2Ephp%3Flid%3D040402&p=93769a45d58811a058bcd7354851&user=baidu

Flameproof, you’re indeed a 老手/ veteran on doing business with PayPal, we’re green-hand and still “younger” than you, who definitely have a lot of things to learn.

[flameproof]

We really don’t know that rule, and have no idea where the TOS is,

After login to Paypal, near the bottom on the right you can see "User Agreement"

www.paypal.com/row/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_payments

There is: Payments (Sending, Receiving, and Withdrawals) Policy

There it said under VI.:

No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods).

I here and then had some minor trouble with Paypal. You can bring the numerous rules to one point: If trouble, seller loses.

That's why you have to protect yourself in time and keep the balance low by regular withdrawals