So, what do they come for, if it's not for teaching English?

[Long Pan]

Interesting article from last week China Daily (June 6th), about English teachers in China. Extract:

Critics say most teachers are dedicated, career-oriented and experienced, but the growing industry could become disreputable unless it's standardized. And English teachers have become the subject of hot debate on websites and blogs and among college instructors and Chinese students. "They come to China for something else, not to teach," said Niu Qiang, a visiting professor of the English Department at Changchun University in Jilin Province, who has written about the lack of standards for foreign teachers. "We should rule out or scrutinize those unqualified teachers." So, what do they come for, if it's not for teaching?

[heifeng]

The goal, they say, is to revamp the qualification process so that foreigners aren't hired solely because they're native English speakers.

hahah this cracks me up because I get chaised down the street by people trying to recruit foreigners for some random English teaching jobs on a weekly basis. The funny thing is, MOST people don't even ask if I am a native English speaker... If you look the part people are willing to give you an English teaching job in China...saying SOME of these foreigners teaching English are unqualified NATIVE English speakers is already being too generous...

I personally came to improve my Chinese and you can beat me to death and I still won't teach anyone English period. I have always felt that just because I speak English doesn't mean I am qualified to teach it, plus I really have no interest in teaching at all. Although this is talking about English teachers being qualified, I also think it is wrong for locals and these school operators to assume every foreigner here either teaches, is willing to teach, or is even remotely qualified to teach English. I personally get really annoyed that I have to dodge the bullet almost every single day while I am in China, from requests from almost all my teachers who have colleages and bosses who have children studying English, down to the granny in my apartment building and the stranger on the street...to top it off, it is even worse knowing that many people are only interested in befriending you for your English ability and even a seemingly kind gesture will eventually end in the question of teaching someone English...

As far as the

reputations of many male foreign teachers outside of the classroom

I am sure some are just messing around with the precise girls who are going out of their way to find a foreigner for a multitude of reasons anyway. I can only assume it's too much effort to corrupt the remaining young, innocent Chinese girls when the others are already throwing themselves at you...

[jbiesnecker]

I was one of those unqualified foreigners without a related degree once, and to be honest I wouldn't have hired me for the job I did, though I would like to think that I did my level best (and it's not like the university offered any support whatsoever). I just used the time that I had to study and then used those skills to find something better.

Obviously there needs to be a better system of vetting English teachers, but that is just one item on a long list of better systems that need to be established here.

[mr.stinky]

"growing industry could become disreputable unless"

unless? it's a well-known secret that anyone with a white face (regardless of native

language) can get a job teaching english. no offense to the qualified teachers here, but

anytime someone tells me they're teaching english in china, i immediately assume they

can't find a real job in the real world. due to no qualifications, or perhaps a degree in

comparative philosophy.

"They come to China for something else, not to teach,.....We should rule out or scrutinize

those unqualified teachers."

those who can, do; those who can't, teach; those who can't teach, teach english in china.

there are qualified teachers here for various reasons, it seems the bulk of those i've met

are nothing more than backpackers who have run out of funds. rule them out, and you're

not left with much. how easy is it to lure someone here with a US$6K salary?

[imron]

how easy is it to lure someone here with a US$6K salary?

But Mr. Stinky, the answer should be obvious and is mentioned clearly in the article. People come to "live in a rich culture with an ancient history and strong economy". Haha, ok, so I laughed out loud when I read that too.

[Senzhi]

Well ... I'm an Adult Educator graduate and I am fully qualified to teach English (no TEFL stuff ... but a real university degree). I do also have a lot of business experience.

I have lived, worked and studied extensively in Ireland, so you can assume my English to be competitive with native speakers, whatever the heck 'native speaker' really means.

But ... I'm Belgian.

I received a good strong contract to teach in a business environment, not only teaching English but more importantly to teach the western business culture to adult business people.

However, the Guangdong government initially refused my Z-visa application, because I was ... simply ... Belgian, and I quote "Belgians cannot speak English".

It took us quite some "guanxi" to settle things. My employer is happy (and so am I), and has in fact kicked some native speakers out, as they had no proper teaching qualification ... and you could see it in the progress of the average student.

I do not consider TEFL, CELTA or Trinity etc. to be a proper teaching qualification! These courses are simply too short, and are merely in my opinion just money-making businesses.

A proper teaching qualification can only be obtained as part of a college or university degree.

One thing I do admit (according to the article): I did come to China to have a more easier lifestyle, to get away from the business stress I was experiencing for many years.

But the government should start to understand that in teaching English, both the words 'teaching' and 'English' are equally important. And that not everybody from English speaking countries are really native English speakers (e.g. L.A. in the states, where the majority is Spanish speaking). Not everybody else outside these countries do have the same level of English as their Chinese counterparts and can in fact speak and write English as fluent as a native (especially business people).

In fact, schools and local governments persistently refuse people from Asian origin, even though they are native English speakers. Hell, some don't even speak any of the Asian languages, and only know English!

An ethnic Asian could have never set foot in China, being a university qualified teacher, only know English as his/her native language ... and never get a teaching job here.

Food for thought. Full stop.

P.S.: any English grammar mistakes are purely typo

[wushijiao]

I think people come to teach in China for various reasons. Critics often present a false choice: you’re either here to unselfishly teach English to the masses while learning about the “5000 years” of brilliant Chinese history, or you’re here because you’re a pathetic loser who cannot find a job in your home country, and you partake in womanizing, and excessive boozing.

I think it is a bit more complex than that. I think that there are other reasons that may not seem as obvious. One is status. I once saw a study that said that most people would prefer to make $30,000 a year in a society in which the per capita average is $10,000 than live in country in which they make $50,000 a year and the per capita is $100,000. I know those numbers are off, but the general point is that people often prefer to live in a society in which they have more relative social status, even if it means that they are not as well financially compensated as they could be in their home countries. I have taught with many teachers who could easily get better paying jobs in their home countries, and who take their teaching seriously (even if they are just mediocre teachers), and yet, they do seem to subtly relish the enhanced power and authority that they have in China (or any developing country), partly because they wouldn’t have that same authority in their home country.

Also, there are the type of people who come to China with some sort of idealistic goals that they want to promote. Perhaps that is the advancement of the notion of human rights and democracy, or the advancement of some religion. In any case, these people often project a sense of what their ideal world is onto the, what is for them, the blank slate of their new host society. Most people who I have met who might fall into this category have been interesting and morally-sound people, but yet their motivations for coming to China are not merely to “teach English”.

It goes without saying that there are also tons of people who want to help people, improve their Chinese level, have an “adventure”…etc. I think most people come to China for a combination of reasons, not just one.

I also think it is worth pointing out that, at lest in my experience, the vast majority of the teachers I have met were pretty serious about their teaching, and at least tried hard. Many that I have worked with over the years have certainly improved, even if they were not fully qualified.

As far as qualifications, ideally, a person would have:

-A university degree in education or linguistics, combined with practical experience teaching ESL

-At least a few years of experience

-Be a native speaker

-Have a strong knowledge base of the various cultures that speak English

-Have a strong sense of cultural sensitivity and history of the host country

-Be at least somewhat aware of the special needs of the L2 speakers in question

-Be an experienced language learner

Clearly, there is no practical way China can accommodate all of these requirements because the people who meet all the above criteria are pretty rare, and the price of hiring these ideal teachers would therefore be way above the market price for teachers. There are a few hundred million people trying to learn English in China, after all. The market is huge. Also, if you limit it to native speakers, you miss out on some qualified “non-native speakers” (like Senzhi). If you limit it to having a university degree, then you get some people who are accomplished scientists or IT specialists, but are disastrous in front of a class.

Also, it’s worth mentioning that, as far as I know, most Chinese teachers (of English, math, history, physics…etc) don’t generally have an education degree either. In other words, they are also not necessarily qualified in the sense that they know how to teach effectively, even if they are competent in their subjects of study.

I think it would be wise to see the standardization of qualifications in the context of China’s overall educational environment, and in terms of the market needs, and needs of each individual province or municipality (ie. Gansu will be different from Shanghai).

In short, I think the Chinese education system has come a long way very quickly, but the sheer number of students combined with the rapidly changing requirements of the job market have created a perfect storm of chaos, in which trying to regulate the “teaching English in China” field certainly needs the government to step in and tighten regulations, but the regulations wouldn’t be very realistic and practical.

[gato]

Also, it’s worth mentioning that, as far as I know, most Chinese teachers (of English, math, history, physics…etc) don’t generally have an education degree either. In other words, they are also not necessarily qualified in the sense that they know how to teach effectively, even if they are competent in their subjects of study.

A solid understanding of the field that's being taught, I think, should come first, and then a personality amenable to teaching, and lastly teaching skills. If a person has the first two, he or she can learn the teaching skills on the job. Teaching is something mostly learned by doing instead of from books.

Slightly off-topic: compare the math performance of Chinese students with Americans who are mostly taught by math teachers who have education degrees but do not have a degree in either math or a math-based field. It was relatively for China to find those math and science teachers since it used be that 70% or more of its college students studied in a technical field, whereas in the US, most undergraduates major in the liberal arts and a very large percentage get a B.A. in education.

[wushijiao]

A solid understanding of the field that's being taught, I think, should come first, and then a personality amenable to teaching, and lastly teaching skills. If a person has the first two, he or she can learn the teaching skills on the job. Teaching is something mostly learned by doing instead of from books.

Agreed. It’s easier to teach someone how to teach than it is to teach a person to a high degree of competence, especially in fields like math or physics, but even in the humanities. But Chinese students also do a ton more homework than their American counterparts.

[xianu]

I know there are a lot of foreigners in China teaching English, but it is truly iunfair to say "they all" are doing it just because they can't find a job elsewhere in the "real world."

I kind of resent Mr. Stinky assuming that "those who can, do; those who can't, teach; those who can't teach, teach english in china."

Agreed: there are unqualified teachers all over the place, and even crappy qualified teachers. (do you remember your K-12 education? or even your college education?) The fact that you The idea that you only are a native speaker of a language does NOT make you a decent teacher of the language. That you are "qualified" teacher of the language or the subject does not make you a good teacher of the subject. To say that one teaches because s/he lacks the skills to do the "real thing" well enough to make it legitimately is ludicrous.

I know many people who teach English in China and other countries for real reasons (not because they can't find something else), more often, the reason being that they want an international living experience and need to find a way to fund it. I have had a bunch of students come to me and ask abotu teaching in China or Taiwan, asking about how to get a job, what they need to qualify for the jobs, and once they get them, what they need to do to prepare themselves. Most of these graduating students are sincere in learning about teaching methodologies and about how to make their classes good, and worthwhile for their students. Most are scared of their new responsibilities and are actively reading and discussing second language acquisition theories. Teaching is much more than just certificates, credentials, etc, and to reduce it merely to that is shameful.

(and yes, I am a teacher, though never of English).

[Hero Doug]

To say that one teaches because s/he lacks the skills to do the "real thing" well enough to make it legitimately is ludicrous.

The one thing about teaching is that "generally" once you prepare the material, you don't need to prepare it again, freeing up a lot of your time.

Also, this is the only job that put's a smile on my face when I begin teaching, rather then moaning and groaning at the start of a work day.

[Crivens200]

Lets not beat around the bush here.

Of all the foreigners I've met in China, I'd say 90% of them were employed as teachers.

Of all the teachers I've met in China, I'd say 90% of them were not real teachers and are here for fairly uncomplicated reasons, mainly because their life back home is not succesful.

No disrespect to the small majority of teachers who are doing it for altruistic reasons, but the majority of teachers (male) are here for the simple lifestyle, cheap beers and easy girls.

I can understand the motives of anyone under 25 or over 55 to come here and teach. Under 25 - a good experience and character building. Over 55 - had your career, maybe got a pension, want to do something adventurous away from the 9-5 humdrum.

A male typically should be getting stuck in to his career after 25 - building it up in his 30's and at the peak of his earning powers in his 40's. Any male who finds himself teaching in China after the age of 30 can consider himself a failure in life (Thanks Mrs Thatcher for the quote :-) ).

Harsh but in most cases true.

I once heard it said that most long term foreigners in China are here because they have been rejected by their own society or are here because they are rejecting their own society. For a foreign teacher over 30 earning a few hundred dollars a month, well I think I know which category they fall in to.

Yes, there are going to be a few exceptions and I'm willing to hear your arguments, but my comments above are based on the white male teachers which make up the majority of teachers around China.

[muyongshi]

I personally came to improve my Chinese and you can beat me to death and I still won't teach anyone English period. I have always felt that just because I speak English doesn't mean I am qualified to teach it

I came to learn Chinese and I am qualified to teach English and you can still beat me to death and I won't teach ANYONE English period.

Interesting forum. I think in terms of university's the larger cities have good standards but like where I live some are legit (weird, but legit) and other's are just old foggies going for young Chinese girls and it's sick.

I am pushing at my university for them to really get serious about it and me and one of the other teachers here are working together to find out about new teachers and complain if something isn't kosher.

I think we foreigners can do a good part to make sure standards are enforced!

[fanglu]

A male typically should be getting stuck in to his career after 25 - building it up in his 30's and at the peak of his earning powers in his 40's.

You know, it is possible that for some people maximising their 'earning powers' isn't their aim in life.

Also, why is this restricted to males? Perhaps females should be barefoot and pregnant?

[Crivens200]

I commented on 25-50 yr old males and their reasons for being here, because generally that group makes up the majority of teachers in China. Most females of the same age, generally, are back in their own country raising their family.

Yeah, OK, some people might not have the aim of maximizing their earning powers but generally I think most people come to China long term cos they know their earning powers are low in their own country and their buying power is increased in China.

And just don’t get me started on those people who try to raise themselves by calling themselves “Business” teachers instead of English teachers as if that was more worthy.

[cdn_in_bj]

Lets not beat around the bush here.

Of all the foreigners I've met in China...

I myself am not an English teacher, nor do I know any, so I cannot support or refute what you wrote regarding teaching English. Regardless, I do find your observations interesting and entertaining.

No disrespect to the small majority of teachers who are doing it for altruistic reasons, but the majority of teachers (male) are here for the simple lifestyle, cheap beers and easy girls.

What am I missing here? Beers are cheap, yes, but come on, it's crappy beer (and the good imported beers are not cheap!). Simple lifestyle? Maybe out in the sticks... but good luck in the larger cities - traffic, bureaucratic procedures, etc. Also, the workplace here is very competitive. I think these people may find it easy because they haven't transitioned from being paid tourists to being integrated into Chinese society, which is made harder by the fact that they are foreigners. And on top of that there are local customs and traditions that one has to be aware of and at least respect and sometimes even follow, I would consider this to be hardly simple at all. As for the last point, I know what you mean but maybe there is another way that could be worded without being insulting to all women of China. In fact, I would think that the majority of those "easy" girls are attracted to foreign men for specific reasons.

I once heard it said that most long term foreigners in China are here because they have been rejected by their own society or are here because they are rejecting their own society. For a foreign teacher over 30 earning a few hundred dollars a month, well I think I know which category they fall in to.

What is your take on the long-term foreigners here who are not teachers?

I do grant that right now it is possible to survive here on very little money (by western standards). But this isn't going to hold true forever. Salaries here are increasing faster than in the west, and as I've mentioned in other posts inflation is also a concern. I think that those foreigners currently living the simple, low-salary life will find it increasingly difficult to maintain this way of living in the coming years.

Also, regarding those that fall under the "simple lifestyle" category, I wonder what their long-term plans are and what they hope to accomplish here? Retirees I can understand, but what about the others? What kind of lifestyle were they living prior to coming here?

[johnmck]

A male typically should be getting stuck in to his career after 25 - building it up in his 30's and at the peak of his earning powers in his 40's. Any male who finds himself teaching in China after the age of 30 can consider himself a failure in life (Thanks Mrs Thatcher for the quote :-) ).

How is this for a definition of a failure in life: Live your entire life living in the same country you were born (most people never leave the town they were born in). Do nothing but working your ass off and paying a mortgage in your 20's and 30's while taking shit from your boss and your wife because "your job is more important than your family..." , then when you arrive in your 40's having to constantly fight off youngsters in their 20's who are after your job. Being made redundant in your 50s and then divorced by your wife. And then at the end of it all dying anyway.

I would guess that a large number of the 30 year old teachers in China are there because they consider that the real losers in life are those who spend their life chasing the Thatcherite dream whilst ignoring the pointlessness of it all. Instead of being fascinated by money they are fascinated by people.

[liuzhou]

I think in terms of university's the larger cities have good standards but like where I live some are legit (weird, but legit) and other's are just old foggies going for young Chinese girls and it's sick.

Thanks. I'll use that in my finding basic mistakes and how not to write English class tomorrow.

[roddy]

the majority of teachers (male) are here for the simple lifestyle, cheap beers and easy girls.

I find this viewpoint quite amusing. If anyone out there is planning to move to China for these reasons can I suggest they move to any fairly large town in the UK, stock up with cheap beer from the supermarket, and take a wander down the high street at chucking out time. No need to even learn Chinese.

[Senzhi]

A male typically should be getting stuck in to his career after 25 - building it up in his 30's and at the peak of his earning powers in his 40's. Any male who finds himself teaching in China after the age of 30 can consider himself a failure in life (Thanks Mrs Thatcher for the quote :-) ).

... and I who always thought Thatcher was a complete failure ...