Grammar books with a translation.

[gato]

I hope you are just joking, hlk. I don't see why you are projecting your frustrations on to Elina here. She agrees with you, which is why she wrote "it’s better for a producing party to manufacture ... customers-oriented products instead of just 'imagining' this product should be good to the target customers."

[elina]

hlk123,

Today in the morning, I have seen your post, but I have not found enough time to answer your post yet. I’m quite busy now. And also, please remember “English is not my mother-tongue”, too, so I will find more time to organize my English words to reply you. But I will make a reply to this thread before 24:00 today on 20 June 2007 in Beijing time, to further discuss about this topic with you.

[HashiriKata]

But I will make a reply to this thread before 24:00 today on 20 June 2007 in Beijing time, to further discuss about this topic with you.

Don't worry about it, elina. It seems to be just a simple misunderstanding on hlk123's part.

[elina]

hlk123,

At first, please click the pictures in the “Selected parts” nearly at the bottom of the following webpages to see the books inside, then you could find every Chinese sample sentence has an English translation for it.

Dictionary of New Terms and Phrases of Contemporary China:

http://www.lovemandarin.com/book.asp?id=439

Comprehensive Dictionary of Chinese Idioms with English Translations and English Idioms with Chinese Translations:

http://www.lovemandarin.com/book.asp?id=450

NEW English-Chinese Pinyin Dictionary:

http://www.lovemandarin.com/book.asp?id=438

I think the authors of the above books are 细致的/ meticulous, as well as 敏锐的/ penetrating to understand foreigners’ need. That’s why I said in the No. 9 post in this thread:

IMO, I don’t think it’s because of the money, since the publishers can increase the price of the books to cover the extra cost for the translation work. And also, if the author of the book can do the translation for the explanation of the grammar points, then he/she will have enough English level to translate the sample sentences.

I think the grammar books without English translation for sample sentences is not because the publishers/authors want to save money on this part, also not because they have not enough English level to translate them, but because the publishers/authors involved in the relevant grammar books 没有意识到/ are not clearly aware that there will be difficulties for foreigners to learn the grammar books without such translations, so they just focus on translating the grammar points in the relevant books, and they think it’s enough for foreigners to understand. That’s why I said in the No. 16 post in this thread:

I think it’s better for a producing party to manufacture marketing-oriented or customers-oriented products, instead of just “imagining” this product should be good to the target customers.

I think I second you mostly, but I’m not sure I can agree with you on this sentence:

Only mainland Chinese scholars don't use English/German in the examples of their books although their books are sold in England/USA/Germany ... "for foreigners".

It equals to say EVERY country’s scholars use English/German in the examples of their books when their books are sold in England/USA/Germany ... "for foreigners", except Chinese, right? I don’t think I can agree with you.

The mainland Chinese scholars can "copy" the best-selling Chinese grammar books which are written by Western scholars.

Also, I don’t know which book is a “copy” from the best-selling by Western scholars on our site, could you mind to enlighten me?

After reading your No. 20 post, even if you add smiley like this , I don’t think it necessarily makes you look friendly.

[hlk123]

Hello friends

I didn't make jokes! gato .. you have misinterpreted my sentences. I know .. you are not so kind-hearted like HashiriKata .. maybe you're much younger ..

I didn't really understand elina's sentences. Thanks HashiriKata, it was not MISunderstanding but NONunderstanding. gato has "rewritten" the sentences .. now I understand.

elina .. I share your convictions that:

1) it is not the money

2) it is not the capability in English language.

I can not accept HashiriKata's views.

That's why I wonder why Li Dejin did not let the examples be translated .. unlike the German scholar (Georg Kneussel) who could translate himself. I think he lived in China.

This example below makes clear why a translation is important:

tian hei --> + le --> tian hei LE.

| ........................... |

v .......................... v

it's dark ---------> it's GETTING dark

I copied from Yip's "Intermediate Chinese".

elina, you (as a Chinese) have used that sentence pattern 1000 times with success BEFORE you learned the grammar of it.

An English student must use it AFTER s/he hears the "difficult" explanation. WITHOUT the English translation s/he cannot imagine the purpose. What new change?

You know .. how many bewildering usages of LE! .. and other 1001 function words!!

Why Li Dejin didnot think along this line?

Maybe I can interpret Li Dejin ... because China was a "closed" country until recently. Suddenly it opens its doors and is compared with USA! Yeah!

It is like Japan. Before (1960?) .. it "copied" the West. Now the West runs after Japan. Gato/HashiriKata .. don't be sensitive and revile me!

There is no copyright in Chinese grammar books! The scholars are too proud to do a 100% plagiarism.

Maybe the next edition of Li Dejin's "A Practical Chinese Grammar for Foreigners" would be better. It is "old" (1982)

PS. Why are the United Nations so "difficult" to manage?

[elina]

hlk123,

Now I also think you’re joking, or maybe you just 不知所云/ really don’t know what is said.

If you carefully check my posts in this thread, you can find personally I agree to add the English translation to sample sentences, so it’s no need for you to tell me the books should be put English translation again and again.

Maybe the next edition of Li Dejin's "A Practical Chinese Grammar for Foreigners" would be better. It is "old" (1982)

I agree the book is not perfect as every book is not perfect in the world, 因为没有绝对的完美，只有相对的遗憾/ because everything is not absolutely perfect, but more or less leaves some regret. And I also agree the book is “old”, but I see “the other side of the story”: the “old” book needs to be re-printed again and again till now, it just verifies that the book has 生命力/ vitality and is welcome by people.

I am looking for Chinese grammar books for beginner and for intermediate level. The authors must be mainland Chinese.

The mainland Chinese scholars can "copy" the best-selling Chinese grammar books which are written by Western scholars.

There is no copyright in Chinese grammar books! The scholars are too proud to do a 100% plagiarism.

I wonder why you don’t just buy the “original” books of the best-selling Chinese grammar books which are written by Western scholars, but bother to ask to buy 100% plagiarism written by the mainland Chinese scholars?

[hlk123]

At the beginning of this week I sent several inquires to publishing houses in Hong Kong, New Zealand and Switzerland concerning "A Discourse Grammar of Mandarin Chinese" and several Chinese readers.

They answered promptly and to the point. I ordered books for US$ 225,-

At the same time I sent an inquiry to a wellknown publishing house in Beijing. NO ANSWER.

I asked elina to seek informations in Beijing. Besides "anger" ... nothing.

My order is US$ Zero.

self-taught-mba /djwebb2004 ... I see your point now!

[elina]

At the same time I sent an inquiry to a wellknown publishing house in Beijing. NO ANSWER.

I believe it’s true. Don’t know if it’s caused by that the email receivers of some publishers do not understand English or they just have low working efficiency, I heard some people also said they sent inquiry to some publishing houses, but no reply. For ourselves, we never try any email when contacting the publishers to ask something, but always telephone them, because we’re impatient to wait for the answer through emails, we need to know the information immediately, and reply our customers within 1 working day. I’m very proud of our quick feedback to our customers, and I can say if a person wants to know something about a book in mainland China, if he/she contacts us, most of the time he/she will get a more prompt reply than he/she directly emails the publisher.

I asked elina to seek informations in Beijing. Besides "anger" ... nothing.

I understand the above “NO ANSWER” is frustrating, but I think your "anger" is 与我无关/ none of my business. I have told the feedback from the publishers to you in the No. 9 post in this thread, and also imply you to try some other publishers outside mainland China by asking “BTW, why you limit that the authors must be mainland Chinese?”. And in addition, I personally think it’s better to add English translation to sample sentences in the grammar books through saying the following in my first post in this thread (No. 9 post in this thread):

personally, as a businessman without any teaching background to foreigner, I don’t know if their saying is right or not, I just have a feeling:

1. As the authors involved in the books are all Chinese people, who MIGHT not truly and deeply understand the difficult points for foreigners studying Chinese. That’s why some books edited by a foreign author like Martin Symonds (the author of Chinese Made Easier) are welcome by many foreigners.

2. I think the Chinese authors MIGHT only think of the foreigners who learn Chinese with a tutor/teacher/class help, but not think of the foreigners who study Chinese totally by themselves.

Please remember the relationship between our company and the publishers are co-operation, we sell their books, they are our products’ suppliers. Our company and the publishers are different units, have no any 从属关系/ affiliation relationship. And THEY decide to publish what kind of books and how to edit the books, so the disadvantage on 编写思路/ compiling thoughts in some books is also 与我无关/ none of my business.

At the beginning of this week I sent several inquires to publishing houses in Hong Kong, New Zealand and Switzerland concerning "A Discourse Grammar of Mandarin Chinese" and several Chinese readers. They answered promptly and to the point. I ordered books for US$ 225,-

I'm glad to know you eventually get what you want.