ge? le?

[leosmith]

I'm confused about when to use "ge". For example, is it "zhe4ge shi4 cheng2zi" or "zhe4 shi4 cheng2zi"?

I'm also confused about when to use "le". For example, is it "nar4 tai4 wei1xian3le" or "nar4 tai4 wei1xian3"?

(I don't know characters yet, so please use pinyin in explanations)

[againstwind]

I'm confused about when to use "ge". For example, is it "zhe4ge shi4 cheng2zi" or "zhe4 shi4 cheng2zi"?

Strictly speaking, they're different.

"zhe4ge shi4 cheng2zi" >>>> This one is an orange. "ge" emphasizes an individual.

"zhe4 shi4 cheng2zi" >>>> They are oranges. Without "ge", the meaning of the sentence may indicate an individual or a conception of plural.

However, "ge" is often omitted in spoken.

I'm also confused about when to use "le". For example, is it "nar4 tai4 wei1xian3le" or "nar4 tai4 wei1xian3"?

adj. + "le" indicates

1) occured certainty

2) current certainty

3) future certainty

So "nar4 tai4 wei1xian3le" and "nar4 tai4 wei1xian3" express the same idea, and the former presumably emphasizes "it is really dangerous there, too dangerous."

[L-F-J]

as far as i know, ge is a measure word used to measure certain nouns. as in "zhege ren" (this person). it must change depending on the noun. such as "zhetiao lu" (this road). tiao is the measure word for things long and winding. such as "yitiao she" (a snake) and "yitiao he" (a river).

sometimes ge can be omitted but not always. the best way to learn when its acceptable is to listen to native speakers. no rule will really help you in this case.

in your example, zhege is short for the entire noun phrase. it means "this (noun)". so "zhege shi...." means "this is", but is omitting the noun. its mainly used in statements where you know the noun. as in "zhege ren shi wo mama" (this person is my mother).

whereas "zhe shi..." means "this is" but it has no measure word because you have no noun to measure yet, you dont know the noun. so its often used in questions. "zhe shi shenme?" (what is this?) otherwise you can ask "zhege dongxi shi shenme?" (what is this thing) ge is the measure word for "thing" here.

otherwise when telling someone "zhe shi wode" (this is mine), you need no measure word because you are only saying "this" and not "this (noun) is mine".

if you were to say "zhege shi wode" it would have the meaning "this one (noun) is mine". its short for the whole noun phrase. and it may change depending on the noun and the required measure word. so its not always zhege, using ge.

i hope thats understandable.

as for your le example. its impossible to give one rule for how to use le, as it has many variations, uses, and meanings. most often it has to do with change the tense or completed action in a sentence.

but in your example its like this: "tai... le" means "so..." adjective.

whereas "tai..." means "too..." adjective".

example:

tai kuai le.= so fast

tai kuai.= too fast

le here does not change the tense or show a completed action, and it has no meaning. it works as a phrase with tai. tai... le, means so... while tai... means too, excessive.

[leosmith]

Thanks for the explanations.

The ge question was mostly because sometimes I forget a measure word, and I get scolded by my tutor. But she leaves them out sometimes, even in example sentences that she writes for me to study. So I thought if it's understandable either way, I'll just not use the measure word if I don't know it (rather than guess, or just use ge for everything).

The le question was because I heard it meant a completed action, but I keep hearing more and more examples where that wouldn't make sense. So thanks for clearing that up!

[L-F-J]

an example of le used to show a completed action:

wo3 kan4 le5 nei4 ben3 shu1, mei2 yi4si5. - i read that book, it's boring.

and as a change of tense:

(wo3 bu4 chou1yan1. - i dont smoke)

wo3 bu4 chou1yan1 le5. - i no longer smoke.

as for your tutors examples that seem to drop the measure words, i'd be sure to ask her about that to be clear. also, i have a chinese dictionary that has a section of a page or two that shows a general measure word chart. so you know which to use in which general cases. really, i only ever need to use a few. if you get those down you should be fine.

[muyongshi]

Another interesting thing about "le" as it is used to express completion when used in a sentence with a verb-object compound (i.e. chi1fan4 吃饭).

Chi1 and fan4 can be used as one word and can be split up as well and often you will see sentences that break up these two and put a "le" in the center (as well as many other things but we are talking about le).

Just so I don't get confused this is still referring to an action completed. If you say "wo3 chi1 fan4 le" you have a correct sentence that means I ate. But if you say "wo3 chi1 fan4 le jiu4 kan4 dian4 ying3 qu4" (i ate and then went/am going to the movies) the le in this sentence is incorrect. You have to put the le in the middle and have it read "wo3 chi1 le fan4 ....)

So the rule is if there is more after the verb object compound le goes in the middle.

If there is nothing after and it is a simple statement the le can go in the middle (it sounds a bit awkward that way) but absolutely positively has to go at the end (to properly show completion).

Just to help you get the idea here are a few more of those combos:

kan4 shu1 (read book)

he1 shui3 (drink water)

xie3 zi4 (write)

da3 zi4 (type)

and about a billion more...hope that helps...