Speechless Image

[Ian_Lee]

If child labor is not such a bad thing, then why was the revolution needed at all?

Well, my grandparents were huge landlords back then. They also hired local folks to till the fields. But they treated those workers more generously and humanely than any of these Shanxi kiln owners did. Of course, the village chief back then was a KMT cadre and had liasion with all the landlords (just like the kiln owners have that kind of notorious relationship with the local CCP chief).

So what is the difference except it was more benign back then?

Of course, even though these slave labors deserve sympathy, they reap what they sow since Shanxi was the old bastion of the 8th route army.

[adrianlondon]

even though these slave labors deserve sympathy, they reap what they sow

What? Are you saying those slaves deserved what happened to them?

my grandparents were huge landlords

Ah. I get you.

[Ian_Lee]

Adrianlondon:

Congratulation! I don't realize that your Chinese is so good that you know how to 斷章取義!

[studentyoung]

Congratulation! I don't realize that your Chinese is so good that you know how to 斷章取義!

I don’t think it is 断章取义 “to quote out of the context to suit one’s purposes”, Ian_Lee, but it is the hostility in your words to Chinese government and Chinese people (especially to those northerners ) is detected by others.

Of course, even though these slave labors deserve sympathy, they reap what they sow since Shanxi was the old bastion of the 8th route army.

Can you tell us what you really mean “they reap what they sow”? Can you explain what those slave labors exactly sow? Can you explain why what they sow leads to what they suffer? Can you explain the relationship between what those slave labors sow and “Shanxi was the old bastion of the 8th route army”?

What’s more, as to those victims in “9•11”, dare you say “they reap what they sow since the U.S is such a highly developed country with high level democracy and freedom”?

Thanks!

[adrianlondon]

I don't realize that your Chinese is so good that you know how to 斷章取義

It isn't. I don't even know what I've been accused of ;)

[Lu]

Of course, even though these slave labors deserve sympathy, they reap what they sow since Shanxi was the old bastion of the 8th route army.

Not only is this a thoroughly ugly statement, the logic of it is flawed too. Weren't those children from Henan, to begin with? And how would it even make sense: because their forefathers might have tried to make China and the world a better place for workers (cause that's what communism is about, in the end, too bad it usually fails), it's ok for these kids to be used as slaves? What should we do with the Germans then, and with the Japanese, and with you Ian, you're Chinese, after all, and didn't Mao kill a lot of people, and he was Chinese just like you.

But perhaps I'm misunderstanding this quote. Let me know if that's the case.

[Luobot]

I think I've seen the guy second from left in some Hong Kong movies

I think I have, too. So this is what becomes of movie extra have-beens. I’m calling my agent …

On a more serious note (quoted from the article linked to in Quest’s #20 post):

The task force, formed last year to combat human trafficking in the Las Vegas Valley, includes the FBI, federal immigration officials, the Salvation Army, Safe House, the Rape Crisis Center, the Boyd Law School at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas and other organizations.

This again shows the effectiveness of having diverse, independent institutions, the lack of which is a hurdle that China needs to jump over before it can successfully reform.

[Ian_Lee]

Lu:

Why do you think the statement is ugly?

Unlike the German and the Japanese (at least officially) think that the start of WWII is wrong,

I don't see most Chinese from Mainland think that the violent revolution preceding 1949 which cost tens of millions of life is unjustified.

If Xichg thinks that child labor is not bad in a supposedly worker's paradise -- then they reaped what they sowed -- they got the same kind of regime like which had oppressed their forefathers albeit in a more severe manner now.

The same with Mao. The victims that directly or indirectly perished under Mao deserve sympathy. But they also reaped what they sowed. If they had not spoiled Mao from a vocal democrat to an absolute tyrant during all these years, then they would not have died.

[studentyoung]

If Xichg thinks that child labor is not bad in a supposedly worker's paradise -- then they reaped what they sowed -- they got the same kind of regime like which had oppressed their forefathers albeit in a more severe manner now.

Can you explain why Xichg’s own ideas can represent the ideas of those child labors in Shanxi’s tragedy? Doesn’t it 张冠李戴 ”confuse one thing with another”？ What’s more, according to your logic, “they reaped what they sowed”, that it should be Xichg who deserves the sufferings, not those child labors in Shanxi. But it seems that Xich hasn’t suffered those “more severe manner” himself.

The same with Mao. The victims that directly or indirectly perished under Mao deserve sympathy. But they also reaped what they sowed. If they had not spoiled Mao from a vocal democrat to an absolute tyrant during all these years, then they would not have died.

Who had spoil Mao? Below is your original word, Ian_Lee, and please check it yourself carefully.

Of course, even though these slave labors deserve sympathy, they reap what they sow since Shanxi was the old bastion of the 8th route army.

Do you mean those child labor spoil Mao who had been dead before they were born?

What’s more, Ian_Lee, according to your logic, the same might be with those victims in “9•11” and in many other terrorist attacks in the U.S.. You can also say similar words like, “The victims that directly or indirectly perished under the American way of ideology. But they also reaped what they sowed. If they had not so treasured the American way of ideology from a vocal democratic thing to being involved in wars overseas during all these years, then they would not have died.”

Don’t know whether other American people on this forum will agree with your logic of “they reaped what they sowed”.

Thanks!

[Lu]

Why do you think the statement is ugly?

Because what you are basically saying is that it's ok to treat children (people in general) like that.

If Xichg thinks that child labor is not bad in a supposedly worker's paradise -- then they reaped what they sowed -- they got the same kind of regime like which had oppressed their forefathers albeit in a more severe manner now.

Confusing sentence. First of all, China is not a workers' paradise. Secondly, you seem to be implying that because Xichg wasn't treated to badly, it was ok for those kiln bosses to beat and enslave kids. I fail to see the logic of that. Or of any other interpretation of this sentence, for that matter.

The same with Mao. The victims that directly or indirectly perished under Mao deserve sympathy. But they also reaped what they sowed. If they had not spoiled Mao from a vocal democrat to an absolute tyrant during all these years, then they would not have died.

Well, we can just stop sympathizing with all the oppressed people then. The Jews under Hitler? The victims of 9-11? The students at Tiananmen square? Reaped what they sowed, according to your logic. Perhaps it works for Liu Shaoqi or a few people like that: play with fire, you get burned. But not in most cases, not for the general population.

Don't forget, these are children. How is anything political their fault?

[wushijiao]

I’m going to go ahead and close this. There has been some good discussion, but too many topics have been brought up that are not related to the original discussion, and too much emotion has been put in.