Chinese-Forums Wiki?

[gato]

That could work for a start. One just have to be more careful in editing others' post without Wiki's ability to revert to an earlier version if an edit goes badly.

[roddy]

That was my main worry about trying to use the forums for a wiki type thing. However it might be possible for a 'wiki administrator' to make regular copies fairly easily.

[roddy]

Also, there's a product by one of the companies gato linked in the first post which is a full wiki installed natively on Vbulletin rather than bridging between a wiki install and VB - this would (assuming the product is solid) would make things easier to manage and allow searching across VB and the wiki, which is very important.

[gato]

a full wiki installed natively on Vbulletin

Yes, this add-on -- NuWiki -- looks fairly promising.

Here's an example of it in use. Not a very well done one, but an example nonetheless.

http://forums.livingwithstyle.com/showthread.php?t=1869929479

[roddy]

Gato, can I assume you'll be running this - I'll do the initial set up and deal with any technical issues, but someone else is going to have to decide who is / isn't editing, decide on scope of the thing, choose to retain or delete edits, etc.

[gato]

Sure, I can take the lead as it gets off the ground. Hopefully it'll be easy enough that I won't have to do too much.

Are you going to set Nuwiki? It looks fairly good for what it is.

Here is another site using it:

http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4466

[roddy]

Seems like the best option at the moment. It's not free, but the forums wallet can just about stretch to it. I wouldn't want to use anything that didn't integrate very closely with the forums, but that seems to. May loose some wiki functionality, but that's a price to pay.

Have a think about where you want to start in the first instance. I'd suggest that keeping it fairly limited and focused at first would be a good idea, rather than risking spreading things too thinly. Perhaps a guide for people starting to study Chinese, or for those planning to come to China to study, etc.

[roddy]

Just to update - we've basically got a wiki set up, it's just not on public view yet as there isn't really anything in there and I'd like to have at least some content before unveiling, although if I don't get around to putting anything in there in the next few days I might as well just go ahead.

Currently there are two wikis, a 'Beginner's Guide to Chinese' and a 'Living in China'. Others could be added, but I'm inclined to start small and then expand when we have something substantial. Suggestions for extra / alternative topics to start with are welcome.

[cdn_in_bj]

Currently there are two wikis, a 'Beginner's Guide to Chinese' and a 'Living in China'. Others could be added, but I'm inclined to start small and then expand when we have something substantial. Suggestions for extra / alternative topics to start with are welcome.

Hey Roddy, I think that's a great idea. I was also wondering if it would be possible to incorporate in the wiki an index to the most useful topics in the forum. For example, 'Living in China' could include a link to the "Your accomodation in China" topic. And this index could get updated by wiki users.

I know there is the search feature, but I am amazed at the amount of random but useful information I come across on the forums just because someone posted a link from a different topic. I guess what I am proposing is a more organized way to browse the forums. This would be a lot of work for a single person to maintain, but with a community of wiki users it should maintain itself nicely. What do you think?

[simonlaing]

Hey Roddy et. al,

Sorry, I've been busy latelyI can help work on the living in China section. Should I PM or email it to Gato.

Some subtopics could be :

Accomodation

Teaching Jobs- issues and support

Other Jobs- links, issues and support

Places to live

Food

Transportation

I agree linking to past discussions we've had on the topics would be helpful. Perhaps someone could help by doing searchs on these topics and listing the links and basic descriptions.

What do you think?

have fun,

Simon:)

[gato]

Simon,

If you have general suggestions, you should post them here. If you have full text you want to include, you can either PM them to me, or just wait a few days until the wiki section becomes public. I've been busy lately and so haven't really done much yet. We might just leave it in a very skeletal form and open it up. We are thinking of giving edit rights to all registered members, at least at first, since the wiki has a built-in roll-back function.

[roddy]

If anyone has anything they want to contribute, as gato says pass it on to him or if you want just post it in the appropriate place on the forums currently with "Wiki:" in the title so we know what it is. That will allow us to easily move it into the wiki when necessary and it might get some useful comments in the meantime. It is / will be very easy to move a discussion into the wiki (first post will become the article, the rest the subsequent 'discussion') and vice versa any articles in the wiki we decide shouldn't be there can get moved out to become a standard forum topic.

You could also have a think about substantial posts already on the forums that might be suitable for editing into a wiki article.

The index of useful topics I'm not sure about, although if someone actually puts it in place I am unlikely to object What we could certainly have is links to relevant topics within the wiki articles and perhaps a brief list of 'further reading' topics at the bottom.

[cdn_in_bj]

What we could certainly have is links to relevant topics within the wiki articles and perhaps a brief list of 'further reading' topics at the bottom.

I like this approach - the articles would serve to summarize the key points and tie the key forum topics together. It's also more readable and efficient than having just a straight index.

[roddy]

That's what I'm thinking. Like I say if anyone sits down and writes an index I'm not going to slap them in the face with last week's fish, but I'm not sure it would be the most efficient method of doing things. Especially when as you say there is a search function which (assuming you don't mind using the advanced search functions and people have been keeping things focused, on-topic, and using relevant titles) is generally more than adequate.

[roddy]

Ok, after a two and a bit month delay while I . . . .er . . . well, after a two and a bit month delay:

Wiki's are now accessible via a link in the header, or via the forums listings.. There are currently two Wikis, A Guide to Learning Chinese, and a Living in China. Full (ie non-new, non-moderated) users should be able to a) edit articles via the 'edit' link and B) 'create new articles' via the drop down in the header (nb, this will create a new article in the wiki you are currently in). Guests can only view, new members can view, create new articles (which will be moderated) and not edit.

You can write and format wiki articles in much the same was as you do posts on the forum. There are some extras - you can read about them here if you want.

That's all I can think of for now - I'm sure I'll think of more later . . .

[roddy]

Any thoughts on the Wiki at the moment? It doesn't seem to have seen a great deal of activity and the software developers don't appear to be supporting it at the moment. I'm therefore wondering if it might be better to just fold it back into the normal forums when I upgrade the software this week.

[flameproof]

I think the format is OK. The information there is quite good and may prevent plenty of repetitive questions. Even it's somewhere in the forum, searching it can be painful.

[roddy]

Yeah, the information would stay, for some of the more useful posts they'd be stickied, so we wouldn't be losing it together. I'm just not sure if it's worth having the separate section, and the extra wiki functions - ie anyone being able to edit a post - may need to go.

[Luobot]

I think it’s a great luxury to have a great wiki, but at a minimum, a great wiki requires full-time management. For example, it makes sense to have a wiki topic on China visa requirements with all the relevant external links listed there. However, since visa requirements are dependent upon a number of factors (purpose, length of stay, country of origin, possibly source of visa, etc.) and are subject to change at any moment, someone has to stay on top of it. In the case of Wikipedia, the theory is that anyone can edit the entry because there are millions of eyeballs to check the facts and presumably “fix” them. Chinese-forums may not have quite the same mass of eyeballs, so it takes someone who will proactively stay on top of the topic. That’s only one topic out of a potentially infinite number. Not all topics require as much attention to detail, but they also tend to be less useful in a wiki versus a simple post.

The “Best of Chinese Study Tools” listing is a wiki page that is very popular and valuable and gets a lot of attention, but even there, I have to question what I’m looking at. For example, consider the ChinesePod listing ... make that, listings:

1 – “ChinesePod Dictionary (sentences w/ recordings)” listed under dictionaries – Currently returns a 404, not found message. Ting, which has been mentioned in the forums, is a better resource for sentences w/ recordings, but it’s not listed.

2 – “ChinesePod (grammar guide, or podcasts with grammar points)” listed under grammar – Simply goes to the ChinesePod home page. Once found, it's only a limited, unfinished guide, best described as an overview, not as good as other alternatives.

3 – “ChinesePod.com” listed under listening material – It’s the one and only ChinesePod link that’s objectively valid.

4 – “ChinesePod (learning community & podcasts)” also under listening material – Again, simply goes to the ChinesePod home page … just in case you haven’t been directed there enough times already.

My conclusion is that a wiki is useful but only if there is careful, full-time, objective management to keep the facts and links current and free of partisanship. A dedicated “Forums Assistant” might be helpful, rather than an open wiki. As in all such endeavors, conflicts of interest need to be considered so that the information isn’t skewed where money is to be made.

[renzhe]

All your points stand, but I do feel that having a wiki helps people contribute and takes some load off the admins. It didn't take long to have some decent pages set up by regular contributors, and they answered many questions which came up all the time. For example the Chinese input wiki page is quite comprehensive and useful.

So although I didn't contribute much to them, I liked them.