salary expectation, how much should it be ?

[Guest dmrt_]

Hi, everyone

I am interviewing for a software job with some companies in China. Some of the companies are multi-nationals with offices in China. Sure enough one of the questions they ask is my salary expectation. I am not interested in getting a "local" salary. At the same time I'd like to stay reasonable (as much as I can) in my negotiations. Does anyone know of any salary calculators for China or maybe some web articles on averages ?

Thanks in advance.

[gato]

What are you making now?

[Guest dmrt_]

Sorry, gato. That's a private question. I can only say that getting EUR 5000-7000 a month before taxes does not sound unusual in Europe (that's were I am now).

If I name that number, would it scare immediately any potential employer in China ?

(The type of job is somewhere between a team leader and a senior engineer in Software development).

[roddy]

If you have a similar position overseas now, and these are international companies, then I would quote as you would for an overseas job. If they want to tell you that salaries in China are different, claim no knowledge of the China job market and ask them what they would offer.

[cdn_in_bj]

Sorry, gato. That's a private question. I can only say that getting EUR 5000-7000 a month before taxes does not sound unusual in Europe (that's were I am now).

If I name that number, would it scare immediately any potential employer in China ?

(The type of job is somewhere between a team leader and a senior engineer in Software development).

I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed then. That is a senior manager - director level salary here.

[Guest dmrt_]

thanks cdn_in_bj,

although negative, but still a data-point

roddy, of course I can claim whatever I want. But it is like buying a car - only here you start high, and they start low. Obviously they have an upper limit. Above that is no deal. I don't

want to cross that line.

[roddy]

They can always laugh and make a counter offer.

It depends a lot on your circumstances. If you are currently working in Europe and saw an advert in a trade magazine for someone to relocate to China, you're in a very strong position. If you are in Beijing and have got an interview on the back of a speculative letter and CV, you aren't.

[cdn_in_bj]

although negative, but still a data-point

Here are some more datapoints...

Multinational companies set up shop here for two reasons:

1) Relatively low operating and labour costs

2) They want to sell products or provide services to local companies and individuals

So with that in mind, why would a company hire you over a local? What skills do you bring to the table which makes it worth it for them to pay you so much more?

Anyways, a high local salary at a multinational firm for a senior engineer would be 15k-20k RMB (per month). The local firms pay a lot less.

I hope I'm not coming off as being too negative, but this is the reality. Though it never hurts to try, right? Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[gato]

China does have lots of CS and EE graduates every year, probably more than any European country, I would imagine. I'm not familiar with the state of the software talent, but I would guess that it's generally an employer's market, unless you have a really rare skill.

I don't think there are any salary calculators for China, but do take a look at this thread on housing costs. Housing is usually the biggest item on the budget.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/11322-your-accommodation-in-china&highlight=apartment

Your Accommodation in China

[trevelyan]

Unless you're willing to share more details, even hypothetical ones about a situation that mirrors your own but does not need to be accurate, no-one will be able to offer you much help.

Are you interviewing for a programming, managing or customer-relations job? Is the company interested in you because they need someone to speak to their customers in their own language, because you have specific skills they lack, or because you can speak Chinese and help manage? cdn_in_beijing is just being straightforward when he points out that there are a lot of Chinese programmers available and so you probably aren't going to be hired for website development.

That being said, I'll toss out some figures and suggest that a good-but-non-expat salary package in Shanghai would start at 20k. That's probably the equivalent of 15k in Beijing.

[Guest dmrt_]

My question was generic on purpose. I did not expect dozens of people coming with the info for my particular job. On the other hand, even replies on lower or higher level positions may serve as a hint.

The hypothetical situation of mine is a search for something like a team leader for 3-6 people or a senior software developer(with plenty of experience) position. Recently I noticed

there are more and more Chinese speaking good English. I probably should not assume my English would give me a huge advantage.

trevelyan, thanks for the input. I assume the numbers are before tax ?

[zhengrong]

Geetings:

I think dmrt don't realize that China is the one of country which gap between the poor and rich is the biggest. So even same job would supply a totally different salary.

If people you asked don't know how suitable your are for the job that company gave you, they would have no ideal how much salary they will pay to you.

[cdn_in_bj]

On the one hand, being a native English would give you an advantage, but on the other hand, your Chinese language skills would put you at a disadvantage. Where the balance lies really depends on the company.

The numbers I quoted were pre-tax. As a foreigner, there are certain ways that you can reduce your tax load, provided your employer's payroll department is capable and willing to do so. This shouldn't be a problem with multinational firms, but you are probably out of luck with the local companies. Make sure you ask about this at your interview.

[cdn_in_bj]

That being said, I'll toss out some figures and suggest that a good-but-non-expat salary package in Shanghai would start at 20k. That's probably the equivalent of 15k in Beijing.

I've heard from some sources recently that demand/turnover for software engineers is very high in Shanghai - do you find this to be the case? The difference in salaries you noted would seem to reflect this, unless the cost of living is really that much higher in Shanghai?

[Guest dmrt_]

actually, that's also my observation - some companies in Shanghai are hiring quite aggressively. Though as China more and more opens itself, all this invasion (no offense intended) will go farther inland away from coastal areas.

[Guest dmrt_]

I talked off-line to some friends who work in China (not software related). In case someone else is interested, I thought I'd post it here.

Entry level positions for foreigners (with local contract) 15000 RMB / mo.

30000 RMB / mo (for someone with experience) is considered quite good.

[dan ni er]

If the company are hiring you as an expat hire, you should be expected to be paid the same in China as you earn in your home country. I would tell them that you presently earn x and am looking for a salary similar to that.

The fact is that as an expat hire you have a completely different set of circumstances which differentiates you from a local hire. For example, you may have a mortgage back home you may need to carry on paying; national insurance etc. Also you may not want to live in China for the rest of your life, so need to be able to save the equivalent amount as you would be able to in your home country to provide for your retirement.

If this is an MNC and they are specifically looking to recruit an expat, they will be conscious of this, and will in all likelihood, be willing to meet your wage demands.

They obviously feel that hiring an expat will bring something to their team which they cannot find in the local labour market.

Good luck!