Can Westerners become fluent in Chinese?

[rezaf]

everything except for the accent. I mean except for the accent it's quite possible to get to the level of fluency of an average native speaker.

[Kenny同志]

It’s true that many native Chinese speakers’ accent isn’t so standard in a strict sense and their tones are not correct sometimes, but note, their native tongue is not mandarin; it is their dialect.

[ironlady]

I'm a non-native speaker and I work as a simultaneous interpreter between Mandarin and English...is that fluent enough for you?

[anonymoose]

I think you'd need to post a sound sample to be convincing.

Someone working as something is no proof of their ability. I've known many English teachers in China who at best have very mediocre English.

[roddy]

It's a silly question really. 'Westerners' have been to the moon, memorized phone books, built cathedrals and raised children. A language is hardly going to be more difficult.

Whether or not it's worth the effort . . . ah, now there's something to ponder

I think you'd need to post a sound sample to be convincing

Meh. Similarly I've seen plenty of people who can bluff with some well-pronounced native-like utterances but collapse as soon as they get out of a narrow range of familiar situations.

[anonymoose]

Well, it's all relative. I mean, would you be able to talk fluently about quantum field theory, even in English?

raised children

Somehow this seems to be one of the few things that anyone can do, no matter how bad they are at anything else.

[Kenny同志]

Well, it's all relative. I mean, would you be able to talk fluently about quantum field theory, even in English?

Few ordinary Chinese are able to do that unless he/she is very familiar with the subject.

[roddy]

We're dangerously close to yet another discussion on the definition of fluency, at which point I suspect we all disappear in a puff of smoke B)

[ironlady]

Well, the US Department of State seems to have a different opinion. But that is neither here nor there.

I do have actual proof about the acceptability of my pronunciation, however -- my doctoral dissertation was about foreign accent in Mandarin, and the experimental portion had native speakers listen to ten samples of speech in Mandarin and rate them on various aspects of their perceived personal characteristics. Part of this was giving their guess as to the origin of the speaker. My voice appeared on the stimulus recording and was identified as being Chinese, though not by all raters. (The native speaker on the stimulus recording was mis-identified as being non-Chinese by some, as well.)

If you want to be REALLY depressed about all your achievements in Chinese study, and you're in China, look up the Canadian director of the Shanghai Foreign Studies University interpreter training program. FLAWLESS Mandarin AND Cantonese, no accent, handwriting like a native -- and he started in his teens. He's somewhat famous among interpreters. He's the first English-A, Chinese-B in AIIC. Nice guy, though. Very helpful and willing to practice with aspiring interpreters as long as they are serious.

[anonymoose]

Great. Post the ten samples here then and let us have a go.

[roddy]

Don't worry about it, Ironlady, God Himself could start posting on here and someone would demand to see his HSK certificate . . .

[anonymoose]

And what makes you think god can even speak Chinese?

[Kenny同志]

For our almighty God, speaking Chinese is a piece of cake.

[anonymoose]

Well, I bet he still has an accent, and yes, I do want to see his HSK certificate.

[Kenny同志]

You're challenging His authority.

[anonymoose]

Authority is to be challenged.

And anyway, even Chairman Mao had a strong accent.

[Kenny同志]

Chairman Mao’s native tongue is not Mandarin, it’s 韶山话。

[anonymoose]

Precisely. This thread is about non-native speakers, isn't it?

[Kenny同志]

hehe, you win. 说不过你。

[gerri]

I was going to ask to close this silly thread, finally. Methinks the whole concern about fluency and accents is one of the worst things keeping people from opening their mouth and speaking their minds in a foreign tongue... Now, that makes me think that maybe we should require politicians to speak in a foreign language, so they might shut up, however. Hmm...

The way the thread has developed, keep it going. I'm pretty sure, if god wanted an HSK, he'd simply send a substitute and say it's all really him, anyways.