Help with Translating Philosophy Verses Needed

[insight]

Hi, all!

I came accross these two verses in Chinese. Could anybody help me to translate it?

1) 善似青松惡似花，看看眼前不如它；有朝一日遭霜打，只見青松不見花.

2) 不怕念起，只怕覺遲

These two verses appear in Chinese philsophy books.

Thanks in advance,

Michelle

[helenlee]

1, it means that at the first sight, the flower is nicer than the pinetree. when the frost is coming,the flower is withered but the pinetree is standing there still. now in Buddhism,they compare good and bad in one's nature to pinetree and flower.

[insight]

Thanks Helen,

But you still haven't told me how to translate 有朝一日遭霜打，只見青松不見花?

And 不怕念起，只怕覺遲 . Does it mean " do not be afraid of the arousal of thoughts but the late perception"? But I think this translation does not sound good.

Have you got a better suggestion?

Rgds,

Michelle

[gougou]

But you still haven't told me how to translate 有朝一日遭霜打，只見青松不見花?

Actually, she did. The part before the semicolon describes how the pine tree compares to the flower on first sight, while the part after the semicolon describes what happens once it freezes.

[insight]

And how about the second one?

不怕念起 只怕覺遲?

This one is tough to translate.

ITD,

Michelle

[gato]

不怕念起 只怕覺遲

How about "Be not afraid of perceiving, only afraid of perceiving too late"?

Not entirely sure that 念起 is "perceiving". It could also mean "opening one's perception" or "remembering."

See http://140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/dict/GetContent.cgi?Database=dict&DocNum=47335&GraphicWord=yes&QueryString=%A9%C0

(1)惦記、想念。如：思念、掛念。唐˙白居易˙傷遠行賦：惟母念子之心　，心可測而可量。

(2)憶念。佛教指將心清楚放在對象上而不忘失。如：念佛、念施。大安般守意經˙卷下：念出入息。

[insight]

Hello, Gato!

Thanks a lot for the suggestion!

How about "Be not afraid of perceiving, only afraid of perceiving too late"?

As regarding to 念起, I think you should not separate 念 and 起. Since 念起means every emergence of thought ( in Spanish : surgimiento de pensamiento).

So, what do you think if we make it like this:

Be not afraid of the thoughts, only afraid of perceiving too late

Sincerely yours ,

Michelle

[studentyoung]

1) 善似青松惡似花，看看眼前不如它；有朝一日遭霜打，只見青松不見花.

Goodness is a pine tree and evil is a flower.

A flower pleases you more than a tree.

But once it freezes,

the flower will fade while the tree still green.

2) 不怕念起，只怕覺遲

The matter is not what comes to your mind but whether it comes too late.

Thanks!

[insight]

Goodness is a pine tree and evil is a flower.

A flower pleases you more than a tree.

But once it freezes,

the flower will fade while the tree still green

This is a nice translation. But how about :

Wholesomeness is like a pine,

unwholesomeness is like a flower.

At first sight, the pinetree is not compared to the flower;

but once the frost heats them,

the pinetree remains and not the flower.

But as regarding to the second verse:

The matter is not what comes to your mind but whether it comes too late/QUOTE]

I think in the verse, it does not mention matter. What do you think?

Michelle

[HashiriKata]

不怕念起 只怕覺遲

Please stand back and let me have the last words on this :

Don't be afraid of having bad thoughts, do be afraid of not recognizing them soon enough!

[insight]

Hi, HashiriKata

Hehe!

Please stand back and let me have the last words on this :

Don't be afraid of having bad thoughts, do be afraid of not recognizing them soon enough!

This does not sound that bad!!

mmm,,

Michelle

[muyongshi]

I think this thread proves the point that translation is an art, not a science.

[insight]

What about 我慢高山不出德水 ?

Any suggestion of how it should be put into English?

"Arrogance is like a lofty mountain with no virtue at all."

Many thanks!!

[studentyoung]

我慢高山不出德水

It should be “我慢高丘，不出德水”, which is a word from Buddhism.

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%CE%D2%3B%C2%FD%3B%B8%DF%3B%C7%F0%2C%B2%BB%3B%B3%F6%3B%B5%C2%3B%CB%AE&url=http%3A//www%2Ebfnn%2Eorg/bookgb/books2/1840%2Ehtm&p=9949c54ad0c602e00be2947d6100c9&user=baidu#baidusnap0

慢means arrogance .

我慢高山 means the arrogance in heart is like a lofty mountain.

德 means virtue.

In Buddhism, virtues are like water, which will never come out from a heart full of arrogance.

我慢高丘，不出德水

The arrogance in heart is like a lofty mountain, so no room ( in heart ) for virtue any more.

如善知識敦巴云：『我慢高坵，不出德水。』自我傲慢，就像高山，留不住水；而山谷能匯集諸方之水。大地萬物因水而生，水之功德無量無邊。如水往低處流，為人謙下，虛懷若谷，可以增長承載更多功德。

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%A7%DA%3B%BAC%3B%B0%AA%3B%A5C%2C%A4%A3%3B%A5X%3B%BCw%3B%A4%F4&url=http%3A//www%2Eblogger%2Ecom/feeds/19483200/posts/default&p=c26c8f5485cc41af18b5c4710c1096&user=baidu#baidusnap0

Thanks!

[insight]

Well, let's see if there is another suggestion!!

[muyongshi]

The loftiness of my heart is void of all virtue.

Does that work?

[insight]

Woah!! That sounds much better....

Except .... .... you miss "the arrogance" (though loftiness conveys the idea)

Haha!!

[muyongshi]

you miss "the arrogance"

Easy enough

The arrogance of my heart is void of all virtue

[HashiriKata]

What studentyoung (and muyongshi) said is fine but to be more precise within the Buddhist teaching context, "我慢高山不出德水" means "Be humble and do as much lowly work as you can so as to accumulate merit". 德 in this context is probably better translated as "merit" (Even the word "merit" as used here is a Buddhist terminology (功德), and not the "merit" we commonly encounter).

PS: Just saw your post now, muyongshi!

[insight]

Thank you HashiKata for you comment.

And thank you Muyongshi for your reply!!! I think what you had suggested is simple and coincides with the original meaning! I'll take that