Why do caucasians love English?

[skylee]

In some situations possibly even resulting in the unfortunate loss of life

Love the video. Thanks imron.

[gougou]

Sat's not funny.

[Shadowdh]

Why do Caucasians love English?

Obviously because English is the king amongst languages... I thought everyone knew that...???

[adrianlondon]

Why do Caucasians love English?

Because for many of them it's their mother tongue, and for many of the remainder (especially those able to travel) it's a langauge they've been learning for many years.

In response to your specific opener, if you happened to speak fluent German, your friend would probably be most comfortable in speaking German with you.

End of the day, relaxing in a bar, pick the easiest language kind of thing.

All makes perfect sense to me.

[david1978]

Obviously because English is the king amongst languages... I thought everyone knew that...???

Oh. I thought Chinese was supreme. It's spoken by 1.3 billion people, ya know!? lol

Enough of this thread, my hair hurts!

[yonitabonita]

Yonitabonita, I'm sure the irony of this post has not been lost on you. On the one hand, the original thread poster criticized a "Caucasian" for speaking to him in English, which I take to be a criticism of his ethnic attachment to language, yet on the other hand, the poster makes a sweeping and awkward generalization about all Caucasians.

Best to check that assuredness of yours then David, your irony was by far too subtle for me.

Besides, this post spawned a number of silly responses,

On that I can agree.

I think this thread's dead.

[sthubbar]

wushijiao, thanks for understanding me:

I think the spirit of the original post was something along the lines of “I have come to this school to learn Chinese. You have come here to learn Chinese. Why don’t you want to speak Chinese?"

Gato, you are absolutely right!

Sthubbar, you gotta relax.

Mugi can you elaborate?

The conclusions you draw regarding what is pretentious and what is not are illogical.

If two Asians are in America seen speaking English to each other I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

When I used to attend classes, everyone knew that I only spoke Chinese. No one ever had a problem with it, though some might have considered it odd. It is only this one individual. I have also met two other Caucasians since I have been in China that are fluent in Chinese and yet have the same belief system.

It is actually kind of interesting because my previous classmates know that I only speak Chinese, they will be speaking English with each other and then when they turn to talk to me will switch to Chinese.

Last thing is the point about people using their best language doesn't seem to hold up. I have seen two Germans, two French, or two Mexicans talking to each other in a private conversation using English. I don't think anyone ever considered them pretentious, or requested that they please switch to their stronger mother tongue. The discrimination seems to be especially reserved for two Caucasians speaking an Asian language.

[muyongshi]

I think this thread's dead.

Please! I missed the last 5 hours of heated debate but man...isn't the horse dead?

[muscle]

Well, I've been expecting somebody to give the reason why I think it is, but surprisingly nobody has. So I guess I'll just have to speak for myself, so to speak.

Maybe not for all people, but for people like me, there is the "rub off" effect. The accents of those around me will rub off and I may find myself afflicted with their pronunciation.

Put me in a group of learners who have bad pronunciation, bad intonation and bad grammar, and pretty soon my own skills will deteriorate. This even happens with English which is my native tongue.

I suspect that this German fellow does not want to pick up or hear any non-native pronunciation. He likely applies his rule to everyone who is not a native Chinese speaker.

He is just protecting himself so that he doesn't aqcuire any bad habits.

Another point:

It sometimes is difficult to speak with another learner, because you may know words that she doesn't know, and she may know words that you don't know. But with native speakers of your target language, you can use anything and everything that you have learned. You at least don't have to hold yourself back. And anything you learn from a native speaker, you don't have to worry about it. But something that sounds odd or that you hear from a non-native speaker, you have to check to make sure whether it is correct or not.

Now just imagine that you are talking with another learner, and he starts using some word that you don't know. And you ask him what it is and he tells you, and you go, "OK." And then he continues on using that word and you understand him and by the end of the conversation he has used it like 2 dozen times and you'll never forget it. Then one day you use that word with a native speaker and they don't understand you. And you try to explain but they don't jump from your explanation to the meaning of it. So later you go and look it up and find out that it was wrong! Now you've got this wrong word stuck in your head and you never want to let that happen again, so you ban speaking Chinese with any other learners.

[Shadowdh]

Another point:

It sometimes is difficult to speak with another learner, because you may know words that she doesn't know, and she may know words that you don't know. But with native speakers of your target language, you can use anything and everything that you have learned. You at least don't have to hold yourself back. And anything you learn from a native speaker, you don't have to worry about it. But something that sounds odd or that you hear from a non-native speaker, you have to check to make sure whether it is correct or not.

I like the first part of your post and agree somewhat but for the above I would just like to point out that native speakers can also be guilty of not knowing some words (and in some cases quite a few) and sometimes the language used by natives is not correct... a good example of this is cockney from London... even for native English speakers it can be hard to know what the heck they are saying... (eg I was down the jack at the shop when the guvnor opened his jack and someone robbed him = I was at the shop on the corner when the shopkeeper opened his till someone robbed him.) But if you use this in another part of the UK (heck London even) another native speaker will probably not understand you... which makes me wonder is cockney a dialect?

[gato]

Do Caucasians love Cockney?

[Xiao Kui]

Maybe not for all people, but for people like me, there is the "rub off" effect. The accents of those around me will rub off and I may find myself afflicted with their pronunciation.

Put me in a group of learners who have bad pronunciation, bad intonation and bad grammar, and pretty soon my own skills will deteriorate. This even happens with English which is my native tongue.

I suspect that this German fellow does not want to pick up or hear any non-native pronunciation. He likely applies his rule to everyone who is not a native Chinese speaker.

He is just protecting himself so that he doesn't aqcuire any bad habits.

I don't have the problem of picking up other foreigner's accents by conversing with them in Chinese or hearing them converse in Chinese. There isn't enough exposure in those short exchanges to pick up bad habits, and my exposure to native speakers overwhelmingly cancels this out. However, I am routinely tortured in my Chinese class having to listen to some of my classmates read a 3-4 page article aloud with shoddy pronunciation. It's good practice for them but I don't think it's helping anyone else! I think they should do it on their own time - not in class.

When the teacher has announced the day before that one of them will be 朗读 ing I always 逃课。 Hope no one has found my insertion of these Chinese characters to be pretentious!

[johnd]

There isn't enough exposure in those short exchanges to pick up bad habits, and my exposure to native speakers overwhelmingly cancels this out.

I'd agree with this, and I might even venture that it is even useful to pick up words in this way. The whole story of who you were speaking to, where you were, what they said, how people laughed at you when you copied the bad pronunciation, how you found out it was wrong, may indeed help you to remember the new word.

[dalaowai]

This applies to a lot of people, not only caucasians.

I'm french-canadian, my mother tongue is french, however French-Quebecers and France-Frenchies refuse to speak to me in French. I will meet a French person and they will say with the thickest French accent in English "Oh, you have the accent that is not so understand, we speak the English, is easy for me to know, you know?" I spread on the thickest imitation French accent and converse with them. They know they're getting shat on and I love it.

I have friends in Shanghai who are not Shanghainese, but have learned to speak Shanghaihua and the Shanghainese will only reply to them in Mandarin.

I have come across thousands of Chinese who will reply to me in English when I fluently spoke to them in Mandarin.

At the end of the day, there are just a bunch of losers who think that they are better than everyone else. You just gotta tell those people"The Jerk Store called...and they're running out of you!"

If you get annoyed by them, just let them speak in English and you can keep replying 是吗？不会吧！真的吗？after every sentence they speak.

[SilverTab]

Hey there dalaowai! French-Canadian here too ;)

To get back to the original topic:

I think it could just be a matter of context, but look at it this way...I have yet to visit China (going later this year) but last year I went to India for a month and a half (as some may know, it's fairly easy to get around with only English in India). Now my native language is French. While I was there, when I met other french people (Eighter french-canadians or european). We were speaking in french...Now, we were pretty much both still "learning" english, as in; english wasn't our mother tongue, but I already had to speak english all the time in India, and well, when meeting other french guys, it was a nice "break"...where I could speak french for a while... I mean sure we could've said: Hey let's speak in english so we both practice it a bit more, but we both had been speaking english the entire month,so it was a nice change to be able to speak french with someone...

now maybe this german guy is better in english, and feels more comfortable speaking english, than having to try and focus on speaking chinese (even if his chinese is good) when he already has to do so in his classes (as you mentioned), Remember that not everyone might be as thrilled as you are about learning/speaking chinese...! To get back to the example I was giving: My english is quite good, and I'd say I'm pretty much fluent in it, but since there is a language I was more comfortable with between me and the other french tourists, well we used french naturally, and while I wouldn't be offended if one of them wanted to talk in english (i.e. it takes a lot to offend me hehe), well I still would prefer to speak french...

And obviously the fact that I don't find talking in english that exciting in the first place, I didn't really see the use in "practicing" my, already good english, with other french people...which could be the reasoning of your german (now enemy) friend! ;)

Just throwing some ideas around here anyway!Like I said at first, it's really a matter of context! And well, different people do different things!

[parasite]

This is a really interesting thread and I'm glad I found it. Here -- all along I had been holding a deep resent and loathing toward the Chinese because I thought it was only because of *their* culture that I feel akward speaking Chinese to non-Chinese in public. (Especially the way their eyes turn and they lean in to try to hear, it makes it feel like I'm doing something unusual or strange.) Lo and behold, it's probably an all around thing with people on both sides (Chinese and non-Chinese) contributing to the idea that this so-called "language" is not a general language but one specifically for communicating TO or FROM or (most commonly) IN BETWEEN members of the 'Chinese race' only.

I'm getting on to about 4 years in China, and due to my job, my Chinese has been declining for the past 2 years. (This infuriates me and I have thought about quitting every day since the day I started.) My Chinese coworkers have pushed me to the point that I even feel ashmed to say 你好 and 谢谢. (Even when I need to address a guard or Ayi in the office who speaks no English). Who would have thought that my first 2 years of no culture shock and then getting a certain job -- could lead to culture shock at this level. Every day I'm wishing someone would come in to the office and go postal on all my coworkers, or that this city would be burnt to the grown.

[xiaocai]

The inference of course is that there is something wrong with "Caucasians" (what an absurd choice of a word) "loving" English. I'm sure you would never see a post about why the Chinese "love" Mandarin.

This comparison doesn't look very logical to me. Mandarin is the only official language for all Chinese living in China. But how about English to all Caucasians?

BTW, as a Chinese, I like Chinese, including all the dialects and written forms which most of them I don't understand, not just mandarin. It's good to have variety, right?

I have friends in Shanghai who are not Shanghainese, but have learned to speak Shanghaihua and the Shanghainese will only reply to them in Mandarin.

I think it kind of understandable. 99.99% of Shanghainese speakers are native and even if you speak with even the slightest accent they will notice it and switch to a common language simply to be polite to you.

Yes, I've heard that's a serious problem for you Germans. In some situations possibly even resulting in the unfortunate loss of life

Well too bad they didn't know German.

[self-taught-mba]

Parasite: take a vacation now. Seriously. Too bad to hear about your situation, but don't get to your breaking point. jia1 you2!

[丽丽_Jinlei]

Cool!

[jiasen]

Admittingly I haven't read the whole thread, but I would think the choice between languages shouldn't really be made into too much of a drama. I don't know if any of you guys used to watch Seinfeld, but I think this would be a prime candidate for an episode. George or Jerry gets a GF who speaks another mutual language, and they debate endlessly about which language to speak in.

I can understand why 'westerners' (for lack of a better word) would want to speak English to each other (ease of conversation, privacy etc). Furthermore I also appreciate the OP's reasons for wanting to speak Chinese; namely he seems quite enthuisiastic about his new-found language skills, it gives him enjoyment, it helps him learn etc.

Thus I think the OP should just play this one casually. If someone wants to speak English, you can just accept that and move on. However its possible to say something along the lines of 'Hey, do you mind if we have a conversation in Chinese? I'm trying to develop my language skills and it helps when I converse in it as much as possible'. I live in Australia, and often my other chinese-speaking friends are reluctant to speak chinese to me for whatever reason. But after I explain my thoughts to them, they often are willing to oblige. Because my chinese is probably advanced beginner, they usually speak english to me anyway but i respond in chinese.

It is probably a bit sensitive to refuse to have a discussion with someone based on something like their language preference. Furthermore its a gross oversimplification to assume that, based on the behaviour of this guy and some other ppl you know, all caucasians have some obsessive love for English (i'm sure the french would disagree with that! ).

On the other hand, I would personally ignore 'social rules' which would say that you are pretentious when you speak Chinese to another caucasian. This is just other people getting over-dramatic about the whole thing on their side. If you want to have a conversation in Chinese, and other third parties have a problem with it, who cares. Let them deal with it.