Marriage between cousins

[zozzen]

I believe to marry the daughter or son of mother's brother (who don't share the same family surname) is socially acceptable. In a 1980s TV drama 城市故事 in hong kong, the love story between cousins were featured. Everyone saw their relationship like a normal couple without even a thought about incest.

[889]

Article II, Clause 7 of the 婚姻法 Marriage Law prohibits marriage within three generations: "有下列情形之一的，禁止結婚: （一）直系血親和三代以內的旁系血親."

http://big5.china.com.cn/info/shewaifuwu/txt/2006-08/15/content_7078341.htm

What 三代以內 includes is discussed here:

http://www.gov.cn/banshi/2005-06/13/content_6141.htm

[skylee]

It is obvious that the laws in HK are different from those in the Mainland in this respect. And that the current laws in China forbidding marriage between close cousins were introduced not too long ago (1981).

It is a pity that Jia Baoyu and Lin Daiyu (His father's sister's daughter) would not be allowed to get married if they were characters in a modern Chinese novel. And Baoyu would not be allowed to marry Xue Baochai (his mother's sister's daughter) either.

[Quest]

I think the mainland laws were introduced due to birth defect concerns... probably unnecessary.

[trien27]

Ever thought about why the kinship charts in English or any language are so different than the one in Chinese, which is very specific [started with the Zhou dynasty, where it was declared b the emperor that no person with the same last name shall be married, because they might be related, same thing goes with cousins]? My first cousin's daughter is my second cousin? My mother's first cousin is my second cousin[once removed or is it twice removed]? What type of confusing nonsense is this? Kinship terms in English are so confusing! I'd rather use Chinese. My father's brother is my uncle, but my uncle is also my mother's brother, also my aunt's husband is my uncle?! Uncle could be a friendly term for a stranger who is not even in your family.

[Quest]

Came across this:

妹妹，戀人

My Sister, My Love

上映日期：2007-06-01

類　　型：愛情

片　　長：1時50分

導　　演：安籐 尋

演　　員：松本潤、榮倉奈奈、淺野優子、平岡祐太

發行公司：麗台影業

這是關於一對雙胞胎兄妹──小賴（松本潤飾演）和小郁（榮倉奈奈飾演）的故事，一個愛的故事。

「小郁是我的新娘…」小時候，他們曾在純白色的苜蓿草原上許下承諾，小賴把苜宿花做成的指環，套在小郁的手上，一段美麗而純潔的愛，這個承諾一直烙印在小郁的心中。可是長大以後，小賴似乎早就把承諾忘得一乾二淨，對小郁的態度也變得冷淡。

某天夜裡，小賴終於把心裡真正的情感對小郁告白了：「我一直…都是很喜歡你的…」對小賴來說，小郁的存在超越了身為妹妹的情感。小郁雖然有些遲疑，但還是接受了小賴的感情。因為對小郁來說，從生命最初的那一刻，小賴的存在就是那麼特別。

然而他們的母親──崎（淺野優子飾演），卻開始察覺到兩人的情愫滋長，而小賴找了他的好朋友矢野（平岡祐太飾演）商量，但矢野卻一直都很喜歡小郁。另一方面，暗戀著小賴的同班同學友華（小松彩夏飾演），發現了兩兄妹不尋常的關係，她便開始說服賴離開小郁，以免她受到傷害。在這樣的情況之下，小賴與友華越走越近，卻讓小郁陷入了痛苦的深淵。

夕陽撒落在冷冷的教室裡，微風輕拂飄揚的窗簾。他們的情感互相接觸、交錯，既濃烈熾熱，又變得如此陰鬱優柔。原來，在小賴的心底深處，他確切而明白，這是一段不被允許的愛……。

從寒冬到暖春，時光悠悠，深情至此，小賴和小郁究竟該何去何從？

[skylee]

Re #26. The subject is nothing new. I remember seeing a spanish film featuring Antonio Banderas about incest between brother and sister (oh it was a 1990 film) -> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099298/

[Lu]

Quest: I remember that movie, came out quite recently I think. There was also another one, came out a bit earlier, but also this year, something something tears, Japanese or Korean, also seemed to be about a brother and a sister in love. Didn't see either, but they looked good.

Recently read an article about a woman who goes to a small village in Morocco, and notices that all the people there are either physically or mentally handicapped, the result of generations of cousins marrying. That tradition had emerged in order to keep everything in the family.

[shanghaikai]

Do. No. Marry. Your. Cousins. Make. More. Beautiful. People.

[owshawng]

If its good, keep it all in the family.

[adrianlondon]

Do. No. Marry. Your. Cousins. Make. More. Beautiful. People.

What if your cousin's really hot?

[owshawng]

Exactly Adrian. What if your cousin is Halley Berry, Heidi klum, Eva Longoria, etc. or the male equivalent (me for example:lol:)

[shanghaikai]

Brothers, I only said "marry."

[fireball9261]

There are two types of cousins:

1. The ones on your father side. They are called 堂兄弟姊妹 (at the same generation as you). They mean the people who shared the same paternal grandfather or great grandfather with you.

2. The ones on your mother side. They are called 表兄弟姊妹 (at the same generation as you). They are the ones who do not share any relatives on your father side.

In the old time, marrying your 堂兄弟姊妹 (your father's side cousins) were considered incest. A lot of times, if you marry someone with the same last name, it was also considered a taboo, especially if the person was from the same city or village as you were.

However, at the same time, a marriage between 表兄弟姊妹 (your mother's side cousins) was encouraged. It's called 親上加親 (closeness adding on closeness). I think it was because the daughter-in-law would be the niece of the mother-in-law. It was easier to get along with each other. My father's first wife was his 表姊, and they were married in 1928 in mainland China.

In the modern time, the relatives within the 5 jumps 五服 of relations could not marry in Taiwan no matter which side of the family. This is because the bloodline would be too close for good genetics. I was told the way to count it was as follows: If your cousin is the daughter of your father's brother. You counted from you to your father is 1 服. From your father to your grandfather is 2nd 服. From your grandfather to your uncle is 3rd 服. From your uncle to his daughter is 4th 服. Therefore, she is within your 5 服. If she is hot and you live in Taiwan, you could not marry. However, I heard that you could marry her if you live in Hong Kong or U.K.

Please see http://blog.23360.com/user1/find222/archives/2007/15492.html about 五服.

In the old time, you are not supposed to marry your uncles, aunts, nieces, or nephews on either the father's side or the mother's side because they are in the wrong generations. I am not sure what it's called, but it is also a taboo. In recent years, this rule was relaxed. One of my Hong Kong classmate married his cousin's daughter (a niece), and both sets of parents were not happy at all.

Anyway, even if your cousin is Halley Berry, Heidi klum, Eva Longoria, or Brad Pit, Keanu Reeves, Tom Cruise, etc. and he/she is within your 五服, you better not marry him or her. Otherwise, you would risk to have a child who is an idiot or with some genetic deforms or illness.

[skylee]

fireball9261, thanks for sharing. your post is very informative. But,

Anyway, even if your cousin is Halley Berry, Heidi klum, Eva Longoria, or Brad Pit, Keanu Reeves, Tom Cruise, etc. and he/she is within your 五服, you better not marry him or her. Otherwise, you would risk to have a child who is an idiot or with some genetic deforms or illness.

It doesn't sound very convincing. And again, I think it is a pity that Jia Baoyu and Lin Daiyu (His father's sister's daughter) would not be allowed to get married if they were characters in a modern Chinese novel. And Baoyu would not be allowed to marry Xue Baochai (his mother's sister's daughter) either. The only chance they have would be HK it seems. haha.

[flameproof]

Anyway, even if your cousin is Halley Berry, ... etc. and he/she is within your 五服, you better not marry him or her. Otherwise, you would risk to have a child who is an idiot or with some genetic deforms or illness.

It''s an urban myth. You can have even kids with your sister and the chance of genetic defects is only slightly higher. In some countries it's also legal to marry your sister, France i.e.

Not that I would though. Even if you sister is Halley Berry, I am sure she has cute friends too.

[skylee]

In some countries it's also legal to marry your sister, France i.e.

Could you tell me more? I am curious.

[flameproof]

Marriage between sisters is legal in: France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg, Portugal, Turkey, Japan, Argentinia, Brazil and a few more places.

The kids are at risk if you yourself carry a genetical defect that can be transferred. Marriage between cousins is even in some USA states legal.

[shibole]

Marriage between sisters is legal in: France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxemburg, Portugal, Turkey, Japan, Argentinia, Brazil and a few more places.

Marriage between two sisters? I guess that wouldn't carry much risk of birth defects

Marriage between cousins is even in some USA states legal.

I received this several years ago from a friend who got it from a joke mailing list: http://cousincouples.com/ "26 states allow first cousin marriages; most people can marry their cousin in the US."

And I thought the US was redneck just because half of the states allowed it

If we want more "beautiful people" then everyone should marry someone from a totally different race. Beautiful is defined by human genetic averages, mostly average proportions which seem to center around the golden ratio. Inter-racial offspring tend to be closer to these averages.

Seriously though I don't think marriage between first cousins is a huge disaster though it's certainly less-than-ideal from an reproduction point of view. Marriage between siblings however, that's pretty disturbing even if they don't have kids. Can you say yeeeeeeeeeehaw!

[Quest]

The only problem with marrying your close relative is if you both have the same recessive gene(s) for certain genetic diseases. Knowing the kinds of genetic diseases that run in your family, and a premarital genetic counsultation would help.