What does c sound like?

[newyorkeric]

People say pinyin c sounds like English ts. I can't hear the s. Is this normal for a beginner? How do you pronounce c if you can't hear it correctly?

[gougou]

So you are saying that pinyin ca and pinyin ta sound the same to you? Did you listen to them in isolation yet? Try this table for recordings of all pinyin syllables.

[newyorkeric]

Thanks, I can hear it a little bit on that page. But I can't hear it at all here http://www.hello-han.com/ch-education/yinjieku/hanziyinjieku-en.php.

[gougou]

Not your problem then, I can't hear it either. It is much more obvious in real life!

[xiaocai]

I think you could hear it more clearly by using earphones, but the recording itself also is a bit muffled. The table in gougou's post is much better in terms of clarity.

[newyorkeric]

Do some people pronounce the s very lightly? I have had problems hearing the s clearly on the FSI tapes as well.

[wangyi]

in chinese pinyin we generally pronounce it like " ts" in the end of english word~

practise it a couple of days you will grasp it

[chinlearner83]

The Hello Han sounds are a little *. I'm not sure how to describe it. The 'c' isn't particularly clear.

Do you mean the actual 's' as in the pinyin 's' or just the general sound (such as "sa" and "xiao")? The "xi" can definitely be rather faint and 's'-like.

[newyorkeric]

chinlearner83,

I mean the s in the ts sound of pinyin c, which I often don't hear. Sometimes I can't even hear the s part when my tutor pronouces c. I thought that the s part may not always be clearly annunciated by native speakers .

[mr.stinky]

which native speakers, and where is your tutor from? pronunciation varies widely.

(ever bought a cuppa 'kwawfee' in new england, or a quart of 'motuh awl' in the south?)

down south here, many speakers drop the 't' sound from the 'ts.' can be very confusing,

as they also often drop the 'g' from 'ng' word endings, as well as the 'h' from 'sh.' the

result is that san, can, and shan may all be pronounced as 'san.'

from my former guangxi girlfriend.....

shenme shihou shangke? -> senme sihou sanke?

shi bu shi? -> si b'si?

shanghai -> sanhai

canting -> santin

[cdn_in_bj]

from my former guangxi girlfriend.....

shenme shihou shangke? -> senme sihou sanke?

Just curious, how would she say 四, 十 and 是?

[mr.stinky]

the only difference between four and ten was the tone...si dian vs. si dian. always had to

confirm dates and times at least twice.

four = si(4)

ten = si(2)

is = si(4)

to be or not to be: si(4) b' si(4)

[newyorkeric]

mr. stinky,

My tutor grew up 4 hours outside of Beijing, don't know where precisely. He went to university in Wuhan. Maybe it is a regional thing although sometimes I hear him pronounce it clearly and othertimes not at all.

Ugh, this is a hard language to learn! No pain, no gain I suppose.

[chinlearner83]

Oh, no wonder you can't hear the 's'. Although 'ts' represents the sound, I don't think it sounds much like an 's'.

I also know people who don't differentiate between 四 and 十 except for the tone (and not so much the tone). Amazing how after the first time or so it doesn't cause any difficulty.

[cdn_in_bj]

the only difference between four and ten was the tone...si dian vs. si dian. always had to confirm dates and times at least twice.

I had the same problem when I got here. Which was promptly pointed out and corrected by the friendly locals.

Same with pronouncing 吃 (chi) as 'ci'. Since one of my favourite activities here is to 吃饭, this was also quickly corrected as well.

[DrZero]

The 四 十 problem caused a significant little dustup for me once in Jiangsu Province where my wife is from. I was with an American friend who didn't speak much Chinese and he wanted to get his shoes shined by a street vendor. I asked the vendor how much, and I thought she said 4 RMB. Later when it came time to pay, it became apparent that she actually wanted him to pay 10 RMB. My wife's aunt, always ready to engage in battle with street vendors over prices (as much for sport as anything, I think), intervened and quite an argument ensued, with some onlookers getting involved as well. My friend and I kind of sneaked off in the middle of the battle. I'm not sure what the final price ended up being.

Incidentally, when it comes to 4 and 10, the distinction is not always crystal clear to the Chinese themselves in that part of the country. I have heard people on many occasions repeating to make sure they heard right, or asking for clarification. They often make hand signals when naming prices.

[chinlearner83]

newyorkeric, I was referring to the 's' in 'ts'. I don't think it sounds like much of an 's' at all. It's like a 't' an 's' and puff of air all together. I think that 'ce' and 'ci' may be the clearest versions of the sound.

[newyorkeric]

It's like a 't' an 's' and puff of air all together.

This is a nice description. I think Americans know how to make this sound naturally. When someone is showing disagreement by pretending to spit, if they make the sound pa-too-y (ok, obviously you have to use your imagination here), the too sound is similar to c. At least that's how I taught myself to pronounce it.

[heifeng]

If I may be a lil' un 'PC'...the initial 'c' is clearest in the word 操, especially when people say it in a very exagerated way. (plus the ao final is a bit longer, ci, ce, is a bit shorter and people will just kinda muffle the whole word more when they say it) If you get a chance to visit a wangba or pool hall in China (only for the purpose free tutoring for a few hours of course, and I'm guessing most likely in the north...otherwise you may end up studying the r in 日 pronunciation more which is still a tricky sound for a beginner anyway), you should be quite clear on the c sound..and then you can move to the other c combinations...

Good luck!

[chinlearner83]

Good comment. I chose "ci" because it's really just like pronouncing an extended 'c'. I hadn't really thought of the possible difficulty in distinguishing between 'ce' and 'ci' when I suggested those two together.